1 00:00:02,620 --> 00:00:06,660 [Music] 2 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:16,920 I 3 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:39,440 welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world 4 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:43,160 with me George Gallow and back with me 5 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:44,760 gatri John murnan is part of the 45 6 00:00:43,160 --> 00:00:47,960 sorry I missed a decimal point they are 7 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:50,039 the 4.5 the percentage of Labor members 8 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:52,559 who voted for the blairite candidate Liz 9 00:00:50,039 --> 00:00:54,640 Kendall in the labor leadership election 10 00:00:52,559 --> 00:00:57,239 before that he ran the Scottish labor 11 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:59,800 general election campaign in which all 12 00:00:57,239 --> 00:01:01,760 but one of the MPS were lost and before 13 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:03,760 that that he was the spin doctor for 14 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:05,600 Prime Minister Tony Blair whirling like 15 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:07,720 a dervish in Downing Street and 16 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:09,840 Westminster now you must think I hate 17 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:12,159 him but I don't he has an acute 18 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:14,640 political mind losing Scotland was not 19 00:01:12,159 --> 00:01:17,400 his fault and Liz Kendall at least had 20 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:19,920 the courage of her convictions McAn has 21 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:23,360 courage too otherwise he wouldn't be now 22 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:26,880 on board the Sputnik John thanks for 23 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:29,079 joining us I've got to ask as bluntly as 24 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:31,320 I can tell us what you really think of 25 00:01:29,079 --> 00:01:34,000 Jeremy Corbin 26 00:01:31,320 --> 00:01:36,479 um what was interesting about this week 27 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:38,600 uh at conference is that Jeremy pitched 28 00:01:36,479 --> 00:01:40,799 himself as an idealist a new type of 29 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:42,439 politics a new way of engaging with the 30 00:01:40,799 --> 00:01:44,560 country and he says that's how they're 31 00:01:42,439 --> 00:01:46,240 going to do stuff and obviously I'm a 32 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:48,200 realist I think we have to engage with 33 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:50,439 the electorate we have to be more to the 34 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:52,640 center than he does and yet on every 35 00:01:50,439 --> 00:01:55,479 single decision that he took he moves 36 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:58,079 straight to the center so on on Monday 37 00:01:55,479 --> 00:02:00,479 John McDonald goes we've got to live 38 00:01:58,079 --> 00:02:02,680 within our means and yet Kendall was 39 00:02:00,479 --> 00:02:04,719 abused for being a Tory in June and July 40 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:06,320 for saying the same thing and so every 41 00:02:04,719 --> 00:02:08,560 time there's an accommodation with my 42 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:11,360 side of the party I think it kind of 43 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:13,360 undermines the sincerity and the 44 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:15,080 authenticity of what Jeremy's pitching 45 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:16,840 if he believes what he believes he 46 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:18,040 should go for it full throttle and 47 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,640 there's something interesting about the 48 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:22,239 fact he's not gone for it Full Throttle 49 00:02:19,640 --> 00:02:25,000 but shouldn't you rejoice Rejoice that 50 00:02:22,239 --> 00:02:26,319 uh The Sinner hath repented I kind of 51 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:28,800 think there's a difficulty about it 52 00:02:26,319 --> 00:02:30,560 which is that authenticity is 53 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:32,680 authenticity so 54 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:33,800 Jeremy praised Liz very warm words in 55 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,480 his conference speech and I think that 56 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,000 was actually because he recognized that 57 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:39,040 Liz was the only other person in the 58 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:41,680 election for a leader who had an 59 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:44,000 analysis I I recognize that also myself 60 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:45,480 Jeremy has one and Liz has another one 61 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,920 and the thing is you can either be one 62 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:49,800 or the other I think Jeremy when he 63 00:02:46,920 --> 00:02:51,840 tries to be like Liz um doesn't seem 64 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,959 real to me but more it doesn't seem 65 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,319 authentic to the voter and if you're 66 00:02:52,959 --> 00:02:57,200 going to pitch the voter you've got to 67 00:02:54,319 --> 00:02:59,519 kind of go for it and go actually I 68 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:01,280 don't believe in austerity politics Fair 69 00:02:59,519 --> 00:03:02,879 Point um I think we should borrow more 70 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,640 money but you watch the way that he and 71 00:03:02,879 --> 00:03:06,720 John McDonald dance around the issue 72 00:03:04,640 --> 00:03:08,440 either borrowing is wrong or borrowing 73 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:10,360 is right and you can't sort of dance 74 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:12,040 around it either printing money is right 75 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,480 or it's wrong and I think that's the 76 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:15,480 difficulty of me watching it is as a 77 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:16,760 just as a professional think well you 78 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,239 should stick with what you believe and 79 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,920 you shouldn't try and pretend to be a 80 00:03:18,239 --> 00:03:22,080 sort of halfway to Liz Kendall or you'll 81 00:03:19,920 --> 00:03:25,280 end up like Ed Miller Band Oh Heaven for 82 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:27,959 f uh the but it's neither right nor 83 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:30,319 wrong is it it's not not an abstract uh 84 00:03:27,959 --> 00:03:31,760 question uh 85 00:03:30,319 --> 00:03:33,799 sometimes it's the right thing to do to 86 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,640 borrow uh it depends what you're doing 87 00:03:33,799 --> 00:03:37,640 with the money that you borrow if you're 88 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:40,200 borrowing in order to gamble on the on 89 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:41,840 in a casino that's Madness if you're 90 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:44,959 borrowing in order to build your family 91 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:48,159 a house or uh uh buy books for your 92 00:03:44,959 --> 00:03:49,959 children to become better educated uh 93 00:03:48,159 --> 00:03:53,200 that's good borrowing no no listen I 94 00:03:49,959 --> 00:03:56,400 mean I think um borrowing is a historic 95 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:57,920 low so it's so cheap um governments 96 00:03:56,400 --> 00:04:00,360 centrally and locally should probably be 97 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:02,000 filling the boots for debt as long as 98 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:04,400 they borrow for the right things and the 99 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:06,319 danger is that you borrow just to please 100 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:07,799 people what you should do is you borrow 101 00:04:06,319 --> 00:04:10,159 for things which got a very good return 102 00:04:07,799 --> 00:04:13,879 on them but didn't is John McDonald 103 00:04:10,159 --> 00:04:16,239 playing the dongchao Ping role uh the 104 00:04:13,879 --> 00:04:18,560 most successful Chinese Chancellor in 105 00:04:16,239 --> 00:04:20,239 history that I don't care whether the 106 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:23,080 cat is black or white as long as it 107 00:04:20,239 --> 00:04:25,960 catches mice wasn't this a a very 108 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:28,320 pragmatic quite auster John McDonald we 109 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:29,919 saw at the labor conference this week if 110 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,440 John Mcdonald had the same same 111 00:04:29,919 --> 00:04:33,320 commitment to capitalism the Chinese 112 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,440 Communist Party had I would welcome him 113 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:38,120 with open 114 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:40,400 arms okay let's move uh let's segue into 115 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:44,400 the onto the war front because the 116 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:47,479 conference ended yeah uh not divided 117 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:50,280 around the austerity agenda and economic 118 00:04:47,479 --> 00:04:52,320 policy but over over nuclear weapons 119 00:04:50,280 --> 00:04:54,840 yeah you are at the front in Scotland 120 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:57,639 you know the significance of trident is 121 00:04:54,840 --> 00:04:59,240 an issue uh in Scotland and you know how 122 00:04:57,639 --> 00:05:02,320 important it is as an Article of Faith 123 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:06,280 to Corbin uh it didn't take long for the 124 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:09,720 media to drill down and get to his inner 125 00:05:06,280 --> 00:05:12,800 core uh and he could answer the question 126 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:16,360 in no other way than that he would not 127 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:19,960 press the nuclear button um that's 128 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:23,360 created the mother of all instability 129 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:27,120 Shadow cabinet members denouncing him uh 130 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:30,120 and uh more talk of a coup well I don't 131 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:32,639 think there'd be a coup um there's a few 132 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:35,440 thoughts I've got on that one of them is 133 00:05:32,639 --> 00:05:37,400 um the debate is a kind of uh artificial 134 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:39,680 debate in that there will be a vote next 135 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:41,520 year uh on renewal of trident the Tories 136 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,919 have got a majority they can renew 137 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:46,199 Trident uh labor will have a free vote 138 00:05:43,919 --> 00:05:48,280 in it so therefore n out of 10 members 139 00:05:46,199 --> 00:05:50,720 of the PLP will vote for it Jeremy will 140 00:05:48,280 --> 00:05:52,280 vote against it um against party policy 141 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:55,120 as it is at the moment conference policy 142 00:05:52,280 --> 00:05:57,160 as it is at the moment um and you know 143 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:58,720 the way he runs the cabinet and saying 144 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:01,080 you people are free to say what they 145 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:03,199 want it's almost like actually we 146 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:04,759 shouldn't be asking him what he'd do he 147 00:06:03,199 --> 00:06:08,039 because he' give the right to press the 148 00:06:04,759 --> 00:06:10,319 button to Michael Dugger or Tom Watson 149 00:06:08,039 --> 00:06:12,160 or somebody in the cabinet who who's in 150 00:06:10,319 --> 00:06:14,240 favor of the deterrent well I take that 151 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,800 point but but but it wouldn't in the end 152 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:17,400 because the only person who can press 153 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:19,639 the button is the prime minister and if 154 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:22,000 labor wins Jeremy will be the Prime 155 00:06:19,639 --> 00:06:23,680 Minister but if labor wins and Jeremy is 156 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:26,360 the prime minister he's a member of a 157 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:28,680 nuclear Alliance NATO which has 158 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:30,319 consistently through its history refused 159 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:32,400 to rule out first 160 00:06:30,319 --> 00:06:34,759 so it's in a it's in a very forward 161 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:36,360 leaning nuclear Alliance and so some of 162 00:06:34,759 --> 00:06:38,599 this is a kind of there there's a few 163 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:41,080 threads to be pulled at is is J in favor 164 00:06:38,599 --> 00:06:42,360 of leaving NATO I kind of think he isn't 165 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,840 I know he's got his doubts about what he 166 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:46,919 calls NATO expansion but he's never 167 00:06:44,840 --> 00:06:49,400 questioned NATO itself existing or us 168 00:06:46,919 --> 00:06:51,639 being a Treaty Organization member and 169 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:53,960 in the end we're part of a nuclear 170 00:06:51,639 --> 00:06:55,479 treaty and to some extent it's 171 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:57,240 irrelevant whether we have weapons or 172 00:06:55,479 --> 00:06:58,720 not we're a nuclear power whether we 173 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:00,680 have nuclear weapons or not I personally 174 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:02,440 believe we should need to have our own 175 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,800 independent deterent but we're part of a 176 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:06,599 deterrent 177 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:09,599 Alliance well you mentioned uh you you 178 00:07:06,599 --> 00:07:11,919 didn't expect a cool how do you exp 179 00:07:09,599 --> 00:07:14,960 explain the absence of the blits at the 180 00:07:11,919 --> 00:07:17,520 conference this week I saw Li Kendall 181 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:19,919 she was there I saw Tristram hunt if you 182 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:22,560 talk about the blairites in the historic 183 00:07:19,919 --> 00:07:24,960 sense um lots of people who were 184 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:26,960 blairites and Blair's number 10 aren't 185 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:29,560 in politics anymore actively I am and I 186 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:31,319 was there um people like aliser he's not 187 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:34,080 in active politics he wasn't there in 188 00:07:31,319 --> 00:07:36,520 terms of where the Blair act present in 189 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:39,680 a sense we don't exist anymore because 190 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:42,400 there is no Blair to be a KN for um he's 191 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:45,479 gone and the the Oddity about the LA 192 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:47,759 party conference is you would still 193 00:07:45,479 --> 00:07:50,280 think that the last labor leader had 194 00:07:47,759 --> 00:07:51,680 been Tony Blair so when Gordon became 195 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,840 leader he was kind of washed away 196 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:55,280 immedately by Ed Miller Band Ed Millan 197 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,560 defined themselves against Tony not 198 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:58,759 against Tony and Gordon or against 199 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:01,280 Gordon and now Jeremy's defining himself 200 00:07:58,759 --> 00:08:03,840 against uh Blair as if Gordon and Ed 201 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:07,000 millerand had never happened well in in 202 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:11,039 a way they didn't uh but the the the 203 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:12,319 times yeah which has evolved into the 204 00:08:11,039 --> 00:08:15,319 perfect 205 00:08:12,319 --> 00:08:17,599 blairite killing machine in Exile yeah I 206 00:08:15,319 --> 00:08:20,440 mean uh they are there physically but 207 00:08:17,599 --> 00:08:24,319 they're also there uh spiritually this 208 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:28,000 very week uh outlined the mechanism of a 209 00:08:24,319 --> 00:08:30,759 of a coup the MPS effectively triggering 210 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:33,599 a no confidence vote trying to keep 211 00:08:30,759 --> 00:08:37,279 Jeremy off the subsequent leadership 212 00:08:33,599 --> 00:08:39,959 ballot election uh that would of course 213 00:08:37,279 --> 00:08:41,599 tell the party ofand would I would argue 214 00:08:39,959 --> 00:08:43,920 be in any case 215 00:08:41,599 --> 00:08:46,959 illegal uh 216 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:51,560 this according to the times is what's 217 00:08:46,959 --> 00:08:53,160 going to be done whilst you uh 218 00:08:51,560 --> 00:08:55,880 reasonable and moderate fellow that I 219 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:59,000 know you to be you seem to be saying 220 00:08:55,880 --> 00:09:00,519 that uh Jeremy's probably going to go 221 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:03,000 the distance 222 00:09:00,519 --> 00:09:05,200 so there's lots of kind of fallacies 223 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:07,440 around at the moment in my view uh one 224 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:11,079 of them is uh people on my side of the 225 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:12,640 party uh say oh look if Jeremy is 226 00:09:11,079 --> 00:09:14,920 doesn't do so well in the polls he'll 227 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:18,320 Stand Down in for the good the Party by 228 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:19,600 2020 Jeremy and his supporters never 229 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:21,279 thought they'd ever get control of the 230 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:23,920 labor party they're not going to give it 231 00:09:21,279 --> 00:09:25,040 up um and to be honest if I was one of 232 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:26,440 them I wouldn't either what's the point 233 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:29,040 of getting power just to give her up and 234 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:31,720 go oh look I'm not that good at it um 235 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:35,560 that's kind of FY the other the other is 236 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:39,200 um speculation which is which is as fact 237 00:09:35,560 --> 00:09:41,200 right if there was a coup and a plan I'd 238 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:43,720 have been at the meeting or at least 239 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:45,519 I've been told about the meeting um 240 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:47,360 there's not been a meeting there's a 241 00:09:45,519 --> 00:09:50,000 very clear mechanism I could outline it 242 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:50,959 now but there's no point in outlining it 243 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:53,920 now 244 00:09:50,959 --> 00:09:56,320 because who's the candidate you you you 245 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:58,279 know you've got to run somebody against 246 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,600 him you can't just you can't IM I mean 247 00:09:58,279 --> 00:10:01,000 the people who just got beaten are not 248 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,160 going to run again the only one who came 249 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:05,839 the only two people who came out this 250 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:07,640 with dignity Jeremy and Liz so is Liz 251 00:10:05,839 --> 00:10:10,000 going to run again probably not in this 252 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:13,079 cycle has Liz strengthened her claim to 253 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:15,920 be a future Condor of course she has the 254 00:10:13,079 --> 00:10:17,880 question is for me not to people talk to 255 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:21,000 the papers about what the plans are the 256 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:23,200 question is do they have an alternative 257 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:25,000 political project because of all the 258 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:27,279 things that Jeremy's got he's got a 259 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:30,800 political project now I don't agree with 260 00:10:27,279 --> 00:10:32,839 it but I can't sit here and tell you 261 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:34,320 that there is a new labor political 262 00:10:32,839 --> 00:10:37,639 project that I could set out in five 263 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:40,160 points for you there isn't um there is a 264 00:10:37,639 --> 00:10:42,920 crisis of social democracy Jeremy 265 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:45,120 Corbin's Victory is a symptom of that 266 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:48,160 all cause of it but that crisis is there 267 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:50,279 in Australia it's there on the left in 268 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:53,560 in in New Zealand in Canada in 269 00:10:50,279 --> 00:10:55,160 Continental Europe um and some really 270 00:10:53,560 --> 00:10:56,720 hard thinking has got to be done and as 271 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:59,560 a you know there was a comrade at one of 272 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:02,000 the meetings from Egypt uh and she just 273 00:10:59,560 --> 00:11:04,560 said why is it there is no International 274 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:06,600 perspective on anything labor discusses 275 00:11:04,560 --> 00:11:08,000 and no feminist perspective she just sat 276 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:09,200 there and just said I've come to all 277 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,200 these things and it's like everything 278 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:12,720 shrinks to Britain when you talk and if 279 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:14,639 we can't think internationally if we 280 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:16,639 can't think everything through from top 281 00:11:14,639 --> 00:11:19,000 to bottom we don't deserve to be in 282 00:11:16,639 --> 00:11:20,040 contention in a leadership campaign and 283 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,720 you can't have a coup without a 284 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:24,800 candidate you can't have a coup without 285 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:29,320 a project there are princes either 286 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:33,720 across the water uh or wherever they are 287 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:37,440 Chuka being the latter uh and uh and um 288 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:39,440 David milleran being the former are they 289 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:42,800 either of them both of them are they 290 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:44,800 really out of contention do you think uh 291 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:47,120 absolutely both of them David's not 292 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:49,519 coming back there 293 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:50,920 and was F Gerald said there's no second 294 00:11:49,519 --> 00:11:52,560 acts in American life I don't think it's 295 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:54,560 a second act in British political life 296 00:11:52,560 --> 00:11:56,040 there really isn't coming back once 297 00:11:54,560 --> 00:11:59,920 you've gone to the international level 298 00:11:56,040 --> 00:12:02,200 like uh like David has uh then the next 299 00:11:59,920 --> 00:12:05,880 job is further on down that TR path is 300 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:07,639 not and chuker I think you can't launch 301 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:09,160 a leadership campaign and abandon it in 302 00:12:07,639 --> 00:12:10,320 three days and then expect the next time 303 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:11,600 the thing comes up you're going to be 304 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:14,880 top with all this to get the the 305 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:17,120 leadership campaign um it's going to 306 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:19,760 have to be somebody who showed more 307 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:23,120 seriousness um chucka does not have the 308 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:25,199 right to run rather than Liz in my view 309 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:27,600 uh if you make a case make a logical 310 00:12:25,199 --> 00:12:29,720 case uh and you show courage and you 311 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:31,199 show personality and integrity that 312 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:33,480 gives you a bigger claim on the future 313 00:12:31,199 --> 00:12:34,920 than anything else and for anybody to be 314 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:36,639 in contention for the future leader of 315 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:38,720 the L party whenever Jeremy Corbin 316 00:12:36,639 --> 00:12:41,160 stands down after three terms as prime 317 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:43,800 minister it's got to be somebody who has 318 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:45,639 shown courage personal integrity and got 319 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:48,920 a sense of personal ideology values 320 00:12:45,639 --> 00:12:51,839 moral and kind of absolutely clear um 321 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:54,639 and as you know those people are rarer 322 00:12:51,839 --> 00:12:56,120 in politics than they should be well I 323 00:12:54,639 --> 00:12:58,680 hope we're there to see it John you and 324 00:12:56,120 --> 00:13:00,639 I thanks very much for joining us the 325 00:12:58,680 --> 00:13:03,480 spck after the break it's the leftwing 326 00:13:00,639 --> 00:13:07,760 leader of Britain's firefighters Union 327 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:07,760 Matt rack of the fbu don't miss 328 00:13:10,560 --> 00:13:15,839 it welcome back to Sputnik it is a truth 329 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:17,839 universally acknowledged that the 330 00:13:15,839 --> 00:13:20,440 conservatives don't like trade unions 331 00:13:17,839 --> 00:13:23,920 very much the old type of Tory we might 332 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:25,959 call them the D Abbey set preferred 333 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:29,399 paternalistic relationships with their 334 00:13:25,959 --> 00:13:31,880 workers a kind of nobless oblige the 335 00:13:29,399 --> 00:13:34,440 thatcherites took off the Velvet gloves 336 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:37,320 to reveal the Iron Fist therein the 337 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:39,560 1980s and '90s saw big defeats for 338 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:42,560 organized labor and a series of 339 00:13:39,560 --> 00:13:44,959 anti-union laws new labor under Mr Blair 340 00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:47,040 and Mr Brown had no appetite to reverse 341 00:13:44,959 --> 00:13:49,079 them this is one of the reasons why 342 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:51,720 unions like the rmt and the fire 343 00:13:49,079 --> 00:13:54,120 brigades Union ended up outside labor 344 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:56,800 joining us now to discuss the new wave 345 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:58,639 of thatcherite anti-union laws and maybe 346 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,639 a word or two about Labor's new 347 00:13:58,639 --> 00:14:01,160 situation 348 00:13:59,639 --> 00:14:03,800 is the General Secretary of the fire 349 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:07,199 brigade Union Matt rack Matt thanks for 350 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:09,920 coming on the Sputnik it's public sector 351 00:14:07,199 --> 00:14:12,560 unions like you and the rmt as it 352 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:14,920 happens that are really in the Tor 353 00:14:12,560 --> 00:14:17,360 government sites now they want to 354 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:20,560 effectively make it impossible for 355 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:23,279 public sector workers the only remaining 356 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:26,199 workers by and large who are strongly 357 00:14:23,279 --> 00:14:29,160 unionized can defend their members from 358 00:14:26,199 --> 00:14:31,320 doing so yes I think in the uh in the 359 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:32,880 the consultation documents the fire 360 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:34,480 brigade Union specifically mentioned 361 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:35,720 some of the some of the disputes some of 362 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:38,519 the picketing and so on they 363 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:42,040 specifically mentioned and it is clearly 364 00:14:38,519 --> 00:14:43,800 targeted at public sector unions uh 365 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:46,240 interestingly for us in terms of this 366 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:48,120 debate about thresholds we achieve very 367 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:50,759 high thresholds uh when we've had to 368 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:53,560 ballot for industrial action uh but it's 369 00:14:50,759 --> 00:14:56,000 clear an attempt to uh effectively 370 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:57,959 illegalize strikes across most of the 371 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,560 public sector and once they've done that 372 00:14:57,959 --> 00:15:01,000 they'll come after the rest of us to me 373 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:02,839 and the debate I've had with 374 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:04,600 firefighters and other trade unionists 375 00:15:02,839 --> 00:15:06,519 is you've got to ask why are they doing 376 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:08,079 it at this time they've just announced 377 00:15:06,519 --> 00:15:11,560 that for the public sector for the next 378 00:15:08,079 --> 00:15:14,000 four years another fouryear pay freeze 379 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:16,959 they on top of the freeze that we've had 380 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:18,160 for the past five years uh they we were 381 00:15:16,959 --> 00:15:20,360 expecting the comprehensive spending 382 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:22,360 review with further cuts of between 25 383 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:24,440 and 40% in public services so that's 384 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:27,440 going to mean tens of thousands of jobs 385 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:29,000 going our pensions are being attacked 386 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:31,240 it's obvious why they want they want to 387 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:32,800 stop people resisting and and I think 388 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:36,519 it's you've got to put the two sides of 389 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:38,639 that together yeah uh your in industry 390 00:15:36,519 --> 00:15:39,720 and your your union with which I've long 391 00:15:38,639 --> 00:15:44,440 been 392 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:48,639 Associated uh for 40 years nearly uh 393 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:51,759 used to have a big Workforce with fire 394 00:15:48,639 --> 00:15:55,720 stations everywhere uh where response 395 00:15:51,759 --> 00:15:57,959 times were razor sharp and even your own 396 00:15:55,720 --> 00:16:00,480 fire station the the first one you ever 397 00:15:57,959 --> 00:16:02,240 served in just been closed down you've 398 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:04,519 been under remorseless attack 399 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:06,959 unprecedented in in modern history it's 400 00:16:04,519 --> 00:16:08,560 it's staggering 7,000 it's a small part 401 00:16:06,959 --> 00:16:11,639 of the public service the fire service 402 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:14,120 but 7,000 jobs almost gone in Under The 403 00:16:11,639 --> 00:16:16,480 Last 5 Years over 40 fire stations 404 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:19,000 closed across the country dozens of fire 405 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:20,880 engines axed uh so the service that 406 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,680 people are getting is not what it was 5 407 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:24,600 years ago and and by the way if there 408 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:26,480 are a big events like the floods or for 409 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:28,720 example a terrorist attack then in our 410 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:32,160 view we're less resilient than we were 5 411 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:36,040 years years ago so tell us what the new 412 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:38,399 laws and the TU and labor actually under 413 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:41,440 its new leader have actually stepped up 414 00:16:38,399 --> 00:16:42,319 to the plate to oppose this bill with 415 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,759 some 416 00:16:42,319 --> 00:16:47,000 Gusto uh what will the what will the 417 00:16:44,759 --> 00:16:48,720 bill actually means spell out the Dil I 418 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,839 think the the the headline thing that 419 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,600 people have picked up on is the 420 00:16:49,839 --> 00:16:53,800 thresholds uh that means that there will 421 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:55,800 be a certain requirement to achieve a 422 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:57,319 yes vote if you call for industrial 423 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:59,399 action and there's two of those there's 424 00:16:57,319 --> 00:17:03,160 a general one that 50% 425 00:16:59,399 --> 00:17:04,720 uh need to uh turn out to vote Yes in 426 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,799 what are called important Public 427 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:08,959 Services which include my own transport 428 00:17:06,799 --> 00:17:12,799 education you would have to have that 429 00:17:08,959 --> 00:17:14,880 and 40% of the total uh eligible 430 00:17:12,799 --> 00:17:18,360 Workforce would have to vote yes that 431 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:20,919 means that if you achieved threshold one 432 00:17:18,360 --> 00:17:23,679 just so a 50% turnout you would have to 433 00:17:20,919 --> 00:17:25,839 have an 80% yes vote for the strike or 434 00:17:23,679 --> 00:17:27,679 industrial action to be lawful so I mean 435 00:17:25,839 --> 00:17:29,400 these are figures that no I mean the 436 00:17:27,679 --> 00:17:31,600 analogy we've drawn is with politicians 437 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:33,280 no politician in the UK anywhere 438 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:37,000 achieves anything like that that they 439 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:40,400 expect trade unions to to achieve the uh 440 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:43,240 other part of the bill doesn't directly 441 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:44,720 affect you at least not at this moment 442 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:47,520 maybe it will and maybe you'll say 443 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:51,080 something uh about that it is also a 444 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:54,000 further attempt to sever the ability of 445 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:56,840 trade unions to spend money 446 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:59,679 democratically agreed by their members 447 00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:01,159 on politics absolutely well I mean we we 448 00:17:59,679 --> 00:18:03,720 have a political fund we've and we're 449 00:18:01,159 --> 00:18:05,400 required to vote every 10 years so I 450 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:07,320 think the first thing the first point I 451 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,960 would make is nobody forces anyone to 452 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:11,440 join a trade Union it's a voluntary 453 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:13,280 organization workers choose to join an 454 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,600 organization volunt organization bigest 455 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:18,280 in the country 6 and a half million of 456 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:20,320 us uh and once you join a club then that 457 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:22,039 club makes its rules so people have 458 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:24,080 decided to join the Fire brigades Union 459 00:18:22,039 --> 00:18:25,720 for example we have decided through our 460 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:27,679 structures to have a political fund 461 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:29,720 we're required by law to ballot everyone 462 00:18:27,679 --> 00:18:31,400 every 10 years what they're now trying 463 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:33,960 to do is make it more difficult for us 464 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:36,080 to run that fund our money by the way is 465 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:38,000 not used currently for as you've hinted 466 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:40,400 at isn't used for labor party 467 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:42,120 affiliation fees but much wider 468 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:44,039 political campaigning so that again 469 00:18:42,120 --> 00:18:46,600 they're making it harder for unions to 470 00:18:44,039 --> 00:18:51,039 defend people industrially and 471 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:53,080 politically now uh we know why the farb 472 00:18:51,039 --> 00:18:56,240 Jor ended up outside labor even though 473 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:58,840 it was a part of the very foundation of 474 00:18:56,240 --> 00:19:01,840 the labor party and the Railway Union 475 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:03,559 the rmt actually proposed the motion 476 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:06,480 which set the labor party up in the 477 00:19:03,559 --> 00:19:10,120 first place yet both ended up outside 478 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:13,080 the labor party as indeed I did myself 479 00:19:10,120 --> 00:19:15,559 the landscape has now just very 480 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:19,200 drastically changed or may have at least 481 00:19:15,559 --> 00:19:22,280 has begun drastically to change that 482 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:25,400 must provoke uh amongst unions like the 483 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:26,520 fbu a discussion about whether to seek 484 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:29,000 reaffiliation 485 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:31,520 again yeah I think it's it's a 486 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:34,200 remarkable uh summer you know political 487 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:36,080 earthquake in Britain where rules 488 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:39,760 invented by the right-wing of the labor 489 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:41,720 party to stop the left getting any uh uh 490 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:44,960 presence have actually completely 491 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:47,320 backfired and a remarkable campaign by 492 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:49,280 Jeremy Corbin and his supporters have 493 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:51,520 engaged labor party members trade 494 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:53,039 unionists and a whole range of new 495 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:56,159 people who haven't been involved in 496 00:19:53,039 --> 00:19:58,000 politics before me huge meetings of a 497 00:19:56,159 --> 00:20:00,320 thousand people in small towns around 498 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:03,159 the country it's it's staggering we 499 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:05,400 disaffiliated as as you say in 2004 it 500 00:20:03,159 --> 00:20:07,520 was a very democratic debate it was in 501 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:10,039 Anger at the way Tony Blair had treated 502 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:13,919 us as an Affiliated organization simply 503 00:20:10,039 --> 00:20:16,240 for daring to demand a pay rise uh and 504 00:20:13,919 --> 00:20:18,159 the debate's gone on ever since there is 505 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,960 no doubt that there that debate is now 506 00:20:18,159 --> 00:20:22,039 going on among firefighters and fire 507 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:23,880 brigades union members I've got no doubt 508 00:20:22,039 --> 00:20:25,799 it'll be going on among rmt members as 509 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:29,400 well the two unions who ended up as you 510 00:20:25,799 --> 00:20:33,280 say outside of Labor and this wave of 511 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:36,120 new members that Labor uh attracted as a 512 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:39,000 result of the Jeremy Corbin phenomenon 513 00:20:36,120 --> 00:20:42,720 were hundreds of thousands of new people 514 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:44,760 joined uh we hear we understand is 515 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:47,120 beginning to lead now in the 516 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:48,720 constituencies to phenomenal scenes 517 00:20:47,120 --> 00:20:51,760 where hundreds of people turn up for a 518 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:53,520 labor party meeting that maybe just 12 519 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:57,880 months ago would have been attended by a 520 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:59,120 dozen yeah I exactly I think uh one of 521 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,720 the the things things that people have 522 00:20:59,120 --> 00:21:02,559 commented on in the past few years is 523 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:05,039 people's disengagement with politics 524 00:21:02,559 --> 00:21:07,000 people don't like uh politicians who all 525 00:21:05,039 --> 00:21:11,200 look the same sound the same about the 526 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:13,640 same policies uh and Corbin has blown 527 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:17,480 that apart and is engaged with a whole 528 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:19,880 layer of people who uh don't uh want to 529 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:22,720 see things carrying on as they have done 530 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:24,400 uh now that's a potentially a mass a 531 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:27,200 genuine mass movement the like of what 532 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:29,159 we've never seen uh in in British 533 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,640 certainly in recent British politics 534 00:21:29,159 --> 00:21:32,720 uh and I think the challenge for the 535 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:34,880 trade unions for the left in in Britain 536 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:37,080 is to actually organize that and make 537 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:39,159 sure it it carries on well he even 538 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:41,880 announced recently that if he were to 539 00:21:39,159 --> 00:21:44,279 become a PM that he would set up this 540 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:47,520 ministry for employment rights which 541 00:21:44,279 --> 00:21:50,200 then the obviously uh right-wing papers 542 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:52,159 coined as a Ministry for unions yeah 543 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:54,720 exactly and I think one of the huge 544 00:21:52,159 --> 00:21:57,440 frustrations under the the new labor 545 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:59,559 period in government uh and it it refers 546 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:02,559 back to the current trade I bill is that 547 00:21:59,559 --> 00:22:04,840 13 years there was a chance to uh 548 00:22:02,559 --> 00:22:07,120 improve position the position of workers 549 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:09,400 in relation to trade Union legislation 550 00:22:07,120 --> 00:22:11,919 and they didn't take that opportunity so 551 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:14,000 uh Cameron is now starting not just from 552 00:22:11,919 --> 00:22:15,840 where thatch left off but from where BR 553 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:18,720 Blair and brown and the Coalition left 554 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:20,799 off uh and they're able to push forward 555 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:23,720 uh because of that failure to to 556 00:22:20,799 --> 00:22:26,880 challenge the trade Union laws after 557 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:28,240 1997 so I think we would welcome that 558 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,120 why can't we have a proper debate in 559 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:32,440 Britain about what workers rights should 560 00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:35,039 be and actually the right to organize 561 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:36,760 the right to join a union the right to 562 00:22:35,039 --> 00:22:38,640 uh freedom of Association and the right 563 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:41,000 to take industrial action those rights 564 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:44,000 should be accepted publicly and in in in 565 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:47,919 law well Tony Blair presided over the 10 566 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:50,880 richest years in British history and 10 567 00:22:47,919 --> 00:22:53,000 years of record parliamentary majorities 568 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:56,000 so if he had wanted to the country could 569 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:59,559 both have afforded to and Parliament 570 00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:02,120 would have passed the reversal of these 571 00:22:59,559 --> 00:23:03,799 attacks that were made on Trade union 572 00:23:02,120 --> 00:23:06,080 rights and the rights of working people 573 00:23:03,799 --> 00:23:09,279 to defend themselves over the thater 574 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:11,960 period absolutely and and interestingly 575 00:23:09,279 --> 00:23:13,960 the likes of of John McDonald and Corbin 576 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:16,320 who were very much marginalized during 577 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:18,120 that period uh were arguing for that and 578 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:20,400 others were arguing for that at the time 579 00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:22,880 and on the the new labor leadership 580 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:24,840 refused Point Blank and and Blair Bo 581 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:27,159 boasted of the the fact that Britain had 582 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:30,360 the most restrictive Trade union rights 583 00:23:27,159 --> 00:23:31,799 in Western Europe so for trade unionist 584 00:23:30,360 --> 00:23:34,880 for for workers you know these are about 585 00:23:31,799 --> 00:23:36,960 workers rights uh all you know Cameron 586 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,799 often now talking about the working 587 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:41,279 people workers Working Families and so 588 00:23:38,799 --> 00:23:42,880 on Working Families come together to 589 00:23:41,279 --> 00:23:43,799 organize themselves in trade Unions 590 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,760 that's what they are it's not about 591 00:23:43,799 --> 00:23:47,880 General secretaries it's about working 592 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:51,360 people trying to protect themselves in 593 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:53,960 work uh and that's a huge debate that is 594 00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:57,640 almost ignored in a media the people's 595 00:23:53,960 --> 00:24:00,360 life at work today nowadays um and so I 596 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,960 think I welcome the the discussion and 597 00:24:00,360 --> 00:24:03,640 that that Jeremy Corbin has opened 598 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:06,320 around some of these issues and and hope 599 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:10,320 we can see it through last and quickly 600 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:13,520 uh Matt the all this talk of uh police 601 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:16,559 and fire service mergers where does the 602 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:20,600 union stand on that we think it is 603 00:24:16,559 --> 00:24:22,919 absolutely crazy um the fire service 604 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:25,520 performs a unique 605 00:24:22,919 --> 00:24:28,559 humanitarian uh and independent role in 606 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:30,200 relation to the the 999 services it's 607 00:24:28,559 --> 00:24:31,679 not part of the police and 608 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,559 internationally generally it's not 609 00:24:31,679 --> 00:24:35,480 treated in the same way a couple of 610 00:24:33,559 --> 00:24:38,360 weeks ago we had a fire crew attacked in 611 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:40,880 Northern Ireland seriously attacked uh 612 00:24:38,360 --> 00:24:42,799 we've spent uh 40 years in Northern 613 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,320 Ireland navigating through very 614 00:24:42,799 --> 00:24:46,120 difficult circumstances because Fire 615 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:50,159 crws have to be able to get into 616 00:24:46,120 --> 00:24:52,440 communities in in all across the Divide 617 00:24:50,159 --> 00:24:54,159 uh to do their job without coming under 618 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:56,799 attack and to do that they have to be 619 00:24:54,159 --> 00:24:59,120 seen to be neutral so this is a real 620 00:24:56,799 --> 00:25:01,679 threat to us uh and we will be fighting 621 00:24:59,120 --> 00:25:02,679 as as hard as we can uh to to allow we 622 00:25:01,679 --> 00:25:04,640 want to be able to engage with 623 00:25:02,679 --> 00:25:06,440 communities who whoever they are 624 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:08,240 wherever they are and we're not the 625 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:10,399 police we're not there to do police uh 626 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:12,360 enforcement roles we're not there to be 627 00:25:10,399 --> 00:25:14,799 at protests we're there to render a 628 00:25:12,360 --> 00:25:16,840 unique humanitarian service so that's 629 00:25:14,799 --> 00:25:18,960 the essential uh the background to why 630 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,600 we'll be opposing those proposals well 631 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,880 said good luck with it Matt rack of the 632 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,600 fire brigade Union thanks for joining us 633 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:26,120 on the 634 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,559 [Music] 635 00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:30,960 Sputnik alas that's all we've got got 636 00:25:28,559 --> 00:25:32,919 time for it's the end of the show but 637 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:35,960 you can stay in tou with us on Twitter 638 00:25:32,919 --> 00:25:39,080 at rtor Sputnik or on Facebook Sputnik 639 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:41,399 on Russia today it's goodbye from me gri 640 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:44,399 and from me George Galloway it's been 641 00:25:41,399 --> 00:25:44,399 marvelous