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okay three

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I

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welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world

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with me George Galloway and me gatri the

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French police heroically I must say

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ended the career of the mass murderer

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and Isis Mastermind Abdul Hamid abaud

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the problem is there are a lot more

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where he came from and nobody in our

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political class seems to know how to

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stop the multiplying recruitment of

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those who are all too ready to sacrifice

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their own lives for as many others as

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they can take with them on the contrary

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our leaders repeatedly prove Einstein's

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Maxim that doing the same thing over and

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over again and expecting a different

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result is the very definition of Madness

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having spent the last 4 and a half years

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making Isis and Al-Qaeda stronger in the

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Levant they ask us to believe that they

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are now the men to sort out the mess

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they've been creating not for the last

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15 days but for decades

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and moreover to persist in The Madness

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of fighting Isis and the Syrian regime

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simultaneously and with no un

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authorization and in confrontation

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politically at least with Syria's allies

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joining us to discuss the critical

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juncture at which we now stand is

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political analyst writer and broadcaster

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John White John neither you nor I are

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liberals neither are we pacifists surely

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the question here is not that something

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must be done but what must be done not

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if but how absolutely um what was a

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regional conflict is now undeniably a

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global one in short order we've had the

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Downing of the Russian airliner over the

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Sinai followed by Carnage in beut

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Carnage in Nigeria and Carnage most

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recently on the streets of Paris so this

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undeniably demands an overwhelming

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response the question is as you say

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on what basis that response Comes The

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Narrative that there is any equivalence

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between President Bashar al-assad Assad

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and the people that he is fighting in

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Syria is now no longer tenable if it

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ever was tenable neither is a narrative

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that Putin should be regarded as an

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enemy or as somebody who's hostile to

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our interests we need to form a united

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front and these unilateralist and

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unfortunately we have a government that

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is still plagued with unilateralism on

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this issue unless they come to that

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understanding they will deepen the

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crisis rather than alleviate it because

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it will lock us into a collision course

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with Russia Iran and the Syrian

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governments the vast majority of people

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fighting on the ground are Muslims the

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Muslims of the Syrian Arab Army

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Hezbollah Iranian revolutionary guards

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and volunteers and the kurs and we must

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align our efforts with them now we

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should have done it long before now but

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now it has to be done in fact for the

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last 4 and a half years we've been doing

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the opposite haven't we we've been

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backing them giving them money directly

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or IND directly giving them weapons

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giving them political and uh propaganda

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support calling them Freedom Fighters

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revolutionaries even while they were

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eating people's hearts and cutting off

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heads by the hundreds if not thousands

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and what's needed now is a sharp uturn

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by Western countries not into pacifism

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yeah neither of us would for a moment

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contemplate that we should just be a

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kind of punch bag waiting for the next

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uh a suicide unit to turn up but make

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alliances with the people that are

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already fighting them I've never

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understood why that's so difficult what

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what is it about Bashar alassad that

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means we can't make an alliance with him

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and his friends to crush these people

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well fortunately what we're seeing

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George is the fact that statecraft today

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is a is dying on its feet as a craft um

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when David Cameron talks about striking

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the head of the snake as he did recently

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with regards air strikes in raaka he was

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wrong the head of the snake snake to

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extend the metaphor is in Saudi Arabia

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so why is that Alliance still ongoing

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that Alliance must end and must be

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reconsidered as a matter of urgency

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everybody can see it except him and

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British arms dealers who benefit from

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this Alliance no one else benefits from

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this Alliance this is a medieval

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kleptocracy and the poison and extremism

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which we are fighting emanates from

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there and has done for decades and it's

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now reached a point of critical mass so

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you're right there must be a realignment

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on all fronts regarding our geopolitical

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interests and regarding how we deal with

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this as a security issue at home with

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the guyss to shoot to kill I think we

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should go on that there is a distinction

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to be drawn with people who are

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formulating plans to carry out these

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kinds of attacks and people who are in

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the process of carrying them out it is

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not right to go and shoot and kill

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people who are in the process of

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formulating plans but if someone is

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pring around the Streets of London

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wielding an AK-47 and wearing a suicide

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belt it is simply not to Red the rights

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they must be and deal with appropriately

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i' I'd pull the trigger myself I'd be

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happy to see every iist terrorist lying

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dead in the street again it's not about

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if it's about how if you handle this the

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wrong way as I said 4 days after 911 in

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Parliament when it was recalled if you

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handle this the wrong way you make

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10,000 new Ben laddin I underestimated

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that to be sure but you'll make tens

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hundreds of thousands of new uh uh Isis

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Fighters and people ready to kill

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themselves if they can kill you and as

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many of us as they can take with them

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yes I mean the first order of business

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we have to eradicate the physical

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presence of Isis stroke Das in Syria and

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Iraq that has to be done on the basis of

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a united front the ideology which fuels

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this Menace is a different matter that's

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going to be a longer term struggle and

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that has to be more nuanced that

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involves how we deal with the Muslim

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Community here

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the vast majority of Muslims

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overwhelming majority of Muslims hate

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this Menace even more than we do as I

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said earlier they're the ones who are

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doing the fighting and they dying on the

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ground against the sectarian mass

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murders the only division that matters

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in that region is not between Sunni and

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Shia Christian Muslim non-muslim atheist

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or secularist it is between sectarian

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and non sectarian forces and we should

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be on the side of non- sectarian forces

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and as you see if we go in there

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blundering as we've done in the past

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then we will just give fuel to the fire

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and increased support for sectarian

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forces so we have to be very very

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careful why can't they Ally with the you

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mentioned President Putin earlier the

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Russian military intervention in Syria

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has been devastatingly successful of

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course it doesn't deal with the causes

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no we deal with the causes after we've

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staunched the symptoms um but in terms

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of attacking the

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symptoms the Russian armed forces have

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been devastatingly successful why can't

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Obama and Cameron and Holland say we're

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joining up with Russia to end this

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Menace uh on that Battlefield we'll

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disagree no doubt about what has to

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happen next but there will be no next if

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we can't staunch the blood flow that is

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coming from these people well as we saw

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from the G8 the noises coming out are

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much more positive than they have been

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in the wake of this Carnage The Body

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Language alone from the meeting that we

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were privileged to see between uh

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President Obama and Vladimir Putin and

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it was just them and their translators

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president shows that engagement has been

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much more meaningful than it ever has

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that has to continue there's peace talks

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being scheduled to start in Vienna with

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Syrian opposition groups uh in January

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concrete results must arise from those

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talks but I think the problem has been

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they've been locked into this attitude

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of unipolarity that is a hangover from

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previous administrations the collapse of

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the Soviet Union it was Grey by

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triumphalism the end of History nonsense

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and the idea that America should rule

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the world like ancient Rome when George

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W bush emerged from his Monker 3 days

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after the attack on 911 he did so as the

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enemy the modern incarnation of the

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ancient Roman emperor Caesar Augustus

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and he wanted to redraw the world in

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America's image it was a neocon project

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for a New American Century strategy that

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can no longer be allowed to intrude on

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global Affairs Russia is a viable

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partner uh so as China we need a

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multi-polar alternative to unipolarity

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that has dragged us into this mess this

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is the cause of the crisis that we are

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facing today so they have to accept that

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and I think there is starting to be a

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grudging acceptance of that but it

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certainly can't come quick enough at

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that level because the public itself

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although it's obviously a confusing

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message first they want to kill get rid

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of Assad and now they're you know trying

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to make you know clear actually we need

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to work together with him the public has

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you know can see through that they they

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saw from the beginning that look we've

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got one greater enemy of course Assad

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has done bad things but the bigger enemy

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is Isis and and theu sees that AB

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absolutely I mean we're talking about uh

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a group of sectarians who are intent on

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turning Syria and Iraq into a mass grave

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for minorities Muslim and non-muslim

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alike it's like Paul pot it's return to

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the year zero it's not about islamism

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it's not anything that's Islamic you're

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right the Kim R were not uh Muslims the

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Nazis were Muslims it's a reflex against

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modernity that arises out of conditions

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crisis and war that we cause are talking

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about the West if you look at the issue

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in Cambodia that was a direct result of

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the US extending his bombing campaign to

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Cambodia and producing societal claps

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out of which this Menace and this

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reaction emerged in the form of the K

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rge we we're looking at a very distinct

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parallel here in the Middle East with

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the rise of is when we went into Iraq we

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unlocked the gates of hell and another

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important aspect of this hasn't been

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mentioned yet following on from that is

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we need to ensure Justice in the case of

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Tony Blair is served because he was the

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man he played a key role in unlocking

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those gates of hell and he has to play a

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heavy heavy price because it was from

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those Gates of Hell from that hell that

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this monster has emerged I wish we could

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talk all day but just time for one last

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uh question you this is a snake with

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more than one head actually you're right

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that Riyad is a kind of ideological and

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financial Fountain Head but none of this

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could have happened without the

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collaboration with Isis and Al-Qaeda of

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the Turkish State now turkey is a member

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of NATO yeah the same Alliance as us

277
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Saudi Arabia is always we're always told

278
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is our best friend in the Arab world how

279
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is it possible that NATO and uh the

280
00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:24,200
friends of Saudi Arabia cannot tell them

281
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that it cannot be business as usual you

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have to stop what you're doing and start

283
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doing the opposite yeah I mean on these

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countries uh in the case of Saudi Arabia

285
00:11:32,560 --> 00:11:38,000
at least a client State I mean who's

286
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wagging the dog the dog or the tail well

287
00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,600
I think we have to understand the US is

288
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not the same animal in terms of its

289
00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:46,040
projection of Imperial power as it was

290
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in 2003 it's been severely weakened

291
00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:50,240
after a decade of failed Wars and

292
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occupations in Afghan Afghanistan and

293
00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:55,079
Iraq and beside the fact that the US

294
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took a backi under Obama when it came to

295
00:11:55,079 --> 00:11:59,519
regime change in Libya I think the

296
00:11:57,519 --> 00:12:01,720
problem has been is that the us doesn't

297
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have the resources anymore and its

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Regional allies are now following their

299
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own Regional agenda which are inimicable

300
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to the US agenda of stability of

301
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returning stability to a region that has

302
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now been destabilized and so we know for

303
00:12:11,680 --> 00:12:19,000
a fact that Riad and erdogan were fuming

304
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at the um at the the decision not to

305
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:24,959
proceed with armed strikes against Assad

306
00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:26,480
and his forces uh in 2013 and I think

307
00:12:24,959 --> 00:12:28,480
they followed their own policy in the

308
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wake of that and it's just undermined

309
00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:32,680
all effort to get a handle on this

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00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:34,320
growing crisis but this now is being

311
00:12:32,680 --> 00:12:36,160
laid bare and you're right there is a

312
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very very murky relationship between the

313
00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:39,880
erdogan government and this is group

314
00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:42,240
because we know they would not have been

315
00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:44,199
able to function without the ability to

316
00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:46,440
pass men and material back and forward

317
00:12:44,199 --> 00:12:48,920
across the Turkish border and one of the

318
00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:50,760
most Grievous injustices of this whole

319
00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:52,680
episode and this whole conflict has been

320
00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:55,720
the way that the Turks turned on the

321
00:12:52,680 --> 00:12:57,440
Kurds the heroic Defenders of cabani

322
00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:59,959
when their tanks sat and watched this

323
00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:02,639
going on and they managed to beat off

324
00:12:59,959 --> 00:13:04,959
these uh these Isis hordes and they've

325
00:13:02,639 --> 00:13:07,120
now they've now started air strikes

326
00:13:04,959 --> 00:13:09,160
against the very people who only

327
00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:12,079
registered the only defeat hither to

328
00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:15,720
against is it doesn't get any more worse

329
00:13:12,079 --> 00:13:18,160
than that foul not Mar foul John White

330
00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:20,040
thanks for joining us on the Sputnik

331
00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:22,160
coming up next a British Muslim

332
00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:24,600
perspective on what all of this means

333
00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:27,760
for his Co religionist is broadcaster

334
00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:30,760
Roshan Sal stay

335
00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:30,760
tuned

336
00:13:31,560 --> 00:13:36,240
welcome back to Sputnik something

337
00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:39,240
approaching a state of Siege now exists

338
00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:41,600
for Europe's millions of Muslim citizens

339
00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:43,519
even before the events in Paris YouTube

340
00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:46,120
clips proliferated of usually

341
00:13:43,519 --> 00:13:48,639
defenseless Muslim women and pensioners

342
00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:52,560
being assaulted on public transport or

343
00:13:48,639 --> 00:13:55,320
plane in the street just before Le a

344
00:13:52,560 --> 00:13:58,000
video emerged of an 81-year-old man

345
00:13:55,320 --> 00:14:01,320
pushing a Muslim woman into the path of

346
00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:03,320
an oncoming London tube train a clue you

347
00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:06,480
might think both to the rise of

348
00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:09,160
anti-muslim hatred in Britain and a

349
00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:11,399
deepening of the pool of alienation in

350
00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:15,240
which the Isis and Al-Qaeda terrorists

351
00:14:11,399 --> 00:14:17,519
swim broadcaster Roshan Muhammad s is

352
00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:19,880
one of the most acute observers of the

353
00:14:17,519 --> 00:14:22,959
Muslim Community in Britain and in

354
00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:25,639
Europe and he joins us now Roshan thanks

355
00:14:22,959 --> 00:14:28,040
for coming on board the Sputnik you've

356
00:14:25,639 --> 00:14:29,920
got your finger on the pulse how worried

357
00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:33,040
are the Muslims in Britain and Europe

358
00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:34,440
today and are they right to be uh yes

359
00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:36,160
they are right to be I mean I think

360
00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:38,639
George islamophobia is that

361
00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:40,120
unprecedented levels all across Europe

362
00:14:38,639 --> 00:14:42,320
uh I used to live in France I did a

363
00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:45,079
documentary recently on French Muslims

364
00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:47,360
and it's actually a lot worse in France

365
00:14:45,079 --> 00:14:50,360
than it is in Britain I mean France is a

366
00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:52,759
very aggressive SEC it's it's uh Lite

367
00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:55,600
its secularism is a very aggressive

368
00:14:52,759 --> 00:14:57,920
secularism uh a secularism which

369
00:14:55,600 --> 00:15:00,800
considers a veil to be a threat to the

370
00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:02,920
state if it's sworn in a school uh

371
00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:04,920
islamophobia and racism almost

372
00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:06,880
mainstream not only in French government

373
00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:09,279
perhaps also in French society which is

374
00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:10,959
even more worrying uh in Britain I think

375
00:15:09,279 --> 00:15:12,959
we have our problems here but it's a

376
00:15:10,959 --> 00:15:15,240
it's a much more kind of a liberal type

377
00:15:12,959 --> 00:15:18,800
of secularism that British Muslims have

378
00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:22,000
to uh you know adere to this aggressive

379
00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:25,440
secularism of the French state will not

380
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:28,720
have been uh dampened by the events of

381
00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:32,199
course and the fact that the killers

382
00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:35,519
appear largely to have come from Belgium

383
00:15:32,199 --> 00:15:37,319
uh if not further a field will not uh

384
00:15:35,519 --> 00:15:39,040
will not protect the French Muslims from

385
00:15:37,319 --> 00:15:42,120
what comes next what do you think's

386
00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:44,120
coming next well I mean if you look for

387
00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:46,560
the last year after Char ABDO attacks in

388
00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:48,720
January what the french state did was

389
00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:50,800
they militarized Society if you go to

390
00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:53,199
France now there are literally thousands

391
00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:55,160
of soldiers on the streets usually prot

392
00:15:53,199 --> 00:15:56,839
protecting the Eiffel Tower and places

393
00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:58,440
like that but the synagogues especially

394
00:15:56,839 --> 00:15:59,600
they're not protecting mosques and if

395
00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:00,839
you you actually look at the number of

396
00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:03,279
attacks which have taken place since the

397
00:16:00,839 --> 00:16:05,240
shal ABDO incident it's usually against

398
00:16:03,279 --> 00:16:06,600
Muslims islamophobia is really uh

399
00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:09,480
islamophobic attacks have gone through

400
00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:10,880
the roof uh France has enacted many

401
00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:13,000
right-wing policies you can't even

402
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:15,800
demonstrate against Israel now inance

403
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:17,360
it's a crime to campaign to boycot is

404
00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:19,040
good you can demonstrate against any

405
00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:20,720
other country in the world except Israel

406
00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:23,079
and France you cannot demonstrate

407
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:25,120
against police brutality in France so

408
00:16:23,079 --> 00:16:27,480
they've enacted these extremely

409
00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:29,560
Draconian right-wing laws but they

410
00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:33,279
haven't stopped the terrorist attacks no

411
00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:36,399
they've traded uh Liberty for security

412
00:16:33,279 --> 00:16:39,120
but they gave up the liberty and didn't

413
00:16:36,399 --> 00:16:41,839
get the security are they going to dig

414
00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:43,720
this hole even deeper I think they

415
00:16:41,839 --> 00:16:45,759
haven't got a policy I mean the thing is

416
00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:48,279
that uh I mean they're bombing Syria now

417
00:16:45,759 --> 00:16:49,279
they're bombing Rua you know bombing

418
00:16:48,279 --> 00:16:51,639
dases

419
00:16:49,279 --> 00:16:54,040
supposedly uh but I think they just want

420
00:16:51,639 --> 00:16:56,199
to be seen to be doing something uh you

421
00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:57,360
know France just doesn't have a policy

422
00:16:56,199 --> 00:16:59,279
whatsoever I mean I think it's

423
00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:01,519
personally quite comp I I see these

424
00:16:59,279 --> 00:17:03,839
attacks uh in a nutshell as Imperial

425
00:17:01,519 --> 00:17:06,959
blowback you know I mean France has a

426
00:17:03,839 --> 00:17:09,799
history in Algeria very sorted history

427
00:17:06,959 --> 00:17:11,959
uh most more more recently it bombed

428
00:17:09,799 --> 00:17:14,559
Libya and you know we see the Anarchy

429
00:17:11,959 --> 00:17:16,520
now in Libya Mali but also Syria it

430
00:17:14,559 --> 00:17:19,000
encouraged the destabilization of the

431
00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:21,439
Syrian State now all these extremists I

432
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:23,400
call them takfiri forces that are

433
00:17:21,439 --> 00:17:25,400
rampant now in the Middle East

434
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:27,360
especially but also in Europe are a

435
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:29,000
product of the destabilization of states

436
00:17:27,360 --> 00:17:31,360
such as Iraq and Syria

437
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:33,559
once you get rid of essential Authority

438
00:17:31,360 --> 00:17:35,799
that's what happened un you unleash

439
00:17:33,559 --> 00:17:38,440
these forces of extremism can I just

440
00:17:35,799 --> 00:17:41,200
touch upon what you call dases because

441
00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:44,000
our previous guest also start to

442
00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:46,840
referring to Isis as dases now as an

443
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:49,400
anthropologist uh I believe that

444
00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:52,280
language is culture and therefore the

445
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:55,320
media keep on repeating Isis Islamic

446
00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:57,520
State it it it echoes in society and

447
00:17:55,320 --> 00:18:00,080
therefore people perhaps like you choose

448
00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:01,799
to use the Das is that conscious with

449
00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,080
you well I I want to call them whatever

450
00:18:01,799 --> 00:18:04,840
they don't want to be called and they

451
00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,039
don't want to be called Isis they don't

452
00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,640
want to be called isil they don't want

453
00:18:06,039 --> 00:18:09,919
to be called dis really they just want

454
00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:11,080
to be called DOA islamia Islamic State

455
00:18:09,919 --> 00:18:13,520
because that's what they consider

456
00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:15,480
themselves to be but often obviously uh

457
00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:18,039
you know they are rejected by 99% of

458
00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:20,799
Muslims all over the world so I I think

459
00:18:18,039 --> 00:18:22,799
it's important to delegitimize them in

460
00:18:20,799 --> 00:18:25,360
every sense and of course language is an

461
00:18:22,799 --> 00:18:29,400
important aspect of that now Belgium has

462
00:18:25,360 --> 00:18:32,200
moved center stage in these events uh

463
00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:35,600
you lived in France we both know how

464
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:38,280
permeable the French Belgian uh border

465
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:40,520
is what's the state of play for Muslims

466
00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:43,159
in Belgium now or more importantly

467
00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:44,640
what's it going to be tomorrow well I

468
00:18:43,159 --> 00:18:48,640
think all across Europe when these

469
00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:51,600
terrorist attacks occur you see a uh a

470
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:55,200
clamp down on ordinary Muslims uh not

471
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:57,919
just terrorists or people that um you

472
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:59,080
know may be prone to terrorism uh you

473
00:18:57,919 --> 00:19:01,280
see

474
00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:03,760
the the net cast so wide that the

475
00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:05,919
innocent are put in the same basket as

476
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:07,480
the guilty the radicals in the same

477
00:19:05,919 --> 00:19:10,120
basket as the moderate so what I expect

478
00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:12,679
to see is not only a clamp down on

479
00:19:10,120 --> 00:19:14,880
terrorists and and people where there is

480
00:19:12,679 --> 00:19:16,919
intelligence that they they are on the

481
00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:19,640
verge of committing a violent act but

482
00:19:16,919 --> 00:19:22,880
also on Peaceful dissidents so-called

483
00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:24,960
non-violent extremists uh ultimately and

484
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:27,400
and social conservatives as well whose

485
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:29,240
views may not be palatable towards but

486
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:30,880
you know to to West and liberals But

487
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:34,039
ultimately these are not people that are

488
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:36,760
going to commit violence or Insight

489
00:19:34,039 --> 00:19:40,120
violence thus deepening this pool of

490
00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:42,159
alienation that I talked about we we had

491
00:19:40,120 --> 00:19:46,360
this experience in the north of Ireland

492
00:19:42,159 --> 00:19:49,159
for decades uh if you criminalize

493
00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:51,080
marginalize an entire Society on the

494
00:19:49,159 --> 00:19:55,000
grounds of ethnicity or

495
00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:56,919
religion uh lock them up interment which

496
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:59,000
we did in the early

497
00:19:56,919 --> 00:20:01,440
1970s what you you're actually

498
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:04,159
generating are new recruits and new

499
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:08,159
forces for extremism the same must be

500
00:20:04,159 --> 00:20:10,200
true uh in this islamophobic atmosphere

501
00:20:08,159 --> 00:20:13,080
I think French Muslims British Muslims

502
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:14,559
we feel as though the state we we feel

503
00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:17,120
as though the the state does not

504
00:20:14,559 --> 00:20:18,760
represent represent us the media doesn't

505
00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:21,280
represent that's why I started my own

506
00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:23,640
website to K C for British Muslims

507
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:25,919
because the mainstream media uh doesn't

508
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:29,039
get our views across and that's a very

509
00:20:25,919 --> 00:20:30,960
dangerous situation when you you know 5

510
00:20:29,039 --> 00:20:33,520
million Muslims in France for example

511
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:35,280
feel as though this is a white country

512
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:36,919
this is not a country for brown people

513
00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:40,280
it's not a country for people who have

514
00:20:36,919 --> 00:20:42,840
religious values um on every single

515
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:44,720
socioeconomic indicator French Muslims

516
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:46,280
are right there at the bottom they feel

517
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:48,200
they have no future so when somebody

518
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:51,159
offers them the adventure of a lifetime

519
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:53,720
in Syria or Iraq and often you have this

520
00:20:51,159 --> 00:20:56,760
kind of wahabi Islam creeping in as well

521
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:58,120
funded by Saudi Arabia and Q especially

522
00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:00,400
uh you know when you add that into the

523
00:20:58,120 --> 00:21:03,480
the mix it's a very dangerous cocktail

524
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:05,400
indeed and when you have vast suedes of

525
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:07,600
European populations hating their own

526
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:09,480
country because they feel their country

527
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:11,960
you know does nothing for them that can

528
00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:14,240
only go down very dangerous Avenues now

529
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:16,480
in Britain those stats are different

530
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:19,640
there's just less than 2 million Muslims

531
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:21,880
in Britain not 5 million like France

532
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:24,720
many Muslims are not at the bottom of

533
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:28,360
the socioeconomic uh pile here in

534
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:30,760
Britain yet the feeling of alienation

535
00:21:28,360 --> 00:21:33,679
irrespective almost of the economic

536
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:36,000
position is the same because it's a

537
00:21:33,679 --> 00:21:39,000
culture or feeling that you are being

538
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:42,120
blamed no one who looks at a picture of

539
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:45,200
the Klux Clan yeah imagines that these

540
00:21:42,120 --> 00:21:46,919
people are representative of Christians

541
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:49,480
why then do so many people when they

542
00:21:46,919 --> 00:21:51,440
look at a picture of Isis imagine that

543
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:53,679
these people are representative of

544
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:56,240
Muslims well we get we get asked to

545
00:21:53,679 --> 00:21:58,159
condemn everything any atrocity which

546
00:21:56,240 --> 00:22:00,000
happens anywhere in the world all

547
00:21:58,159 --> 00:22:01,400
Muslims seem to have to apologize for it

548
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,320
like I have anything to do with what

549
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:06,039
what happened in Paris or what happens

550
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:08,120
in in Syria or Iraq uh and it's this

551
00:22:06,039 --> 00:22:10,520
notion of collective responsibility

552
00:22:08,120 --> 00:22:12,440
which uh you know even someone as

553
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:14,000
eminent as Peter oborn yesterday I heard

554
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,880
him say Peter obor is somebody who's

555
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,720
sympathetic towards the Muslim Community

556
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:20,080
and writes stuff about islamophobia

557
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:21,679
which is very Progressive but even he he

558
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,240
I heard him say yesterday that

559
00:22:21,679 --> 00:22:24,960
ultimately we have a terrorist threat in

560
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:27,200
this country and it's coming from the

561
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:29,559
Muslim Community or something to that

562
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:32,440
effect Maybe I'm paraphrasing it in an

563
00:22:29,559 --> 00:22:33,679
unfair way but but ultimately you know

564
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:35,520
it's not as if we're harboring these

565
00:22:33,679 --> 00:22:36,640
people it's not as we're hiding them

566
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,600
it's not as if we're not telling the

567
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,720
authorities about violent incidents that

568
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:44,080
are going to take place you know these

569
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:46,559
people are the the child of f of French

570
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,520
imperialism Western imperialism and

571
00:22:46,559 --> 00:22:49,159
they've got nothing to do with my

572
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,559
religion they they are an insult to My

573
00:22:49,159 --> 00:22:54,080
Religion you know they drag my great

574
00:22:51,559 --> 00:22:56,480
religion to the mud every single day

575
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:58,279
radicalization has several factors one

576
00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:00,760
and I would say the major one is foreign

577
00:22:58,279 --> 00:23:02,120
policy if the the the the the biggest

578
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:05,039
thing you could do to stop the bombs

579
00:23:02,120 --> 00:23:08,039
going off in London and Paris is to not

580
00:23:05,039 --> 00:23:10,720
bomb Syria and Iraq or or you know

581
00:23:08,039 --> 00:23:12,120
generally just a go a much more ethical

582
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,600
foreign policy which is something that

583
00:23:12,120 --> 00:23:16,919
all the people in this most people in

584
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:18,720
this country believe in not just Muslims

585
00:23:16,919 --> 00:23:20,480
secondly uh you have to address the

586
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:22,200
problems of media islamophobia

587
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:24,679
disenfranchisement

588
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:26,320
racism I would say perhaps 10% of the

589
00:23:24,679 --> 00:23:28,520
problem perhaps the Muslim Community can

590
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:31,880
do a little bit more I think we have

591
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:35,240
been uh asleep a little bit in terms of

592
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:37,960
the encroachment of salafi wahhabi Islam

593
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:39,799
uh coming to dominate British Islam now

594
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,600
I'm not saying that that is a you know a

595
00:23:39,799 --> 00:23:43,440
slippery slope towards terrorism I don't

596
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:45,279
think there's the the the connection is

597
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,159
that direct but I think it is an

598
00:23:45,279 --> 00:23:49,760
intolerant brand of Islam I don't want

599
00:23:47,159 --> 00:23:52,679
to see it dominate British Islam I want

600
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:55,520
to see the sufis the the Shia the bis

601
00:23:52,679 --> 00:23:56,880
the dandis and the salais um you know

602
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,600
they're all part of the fabric of

603
00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:01,240
British Islam and I don't want to see

604
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:02,919
any of them dominate over the other I I

605
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:05,840
want to see a diverse Islam that's the

606
00:24:02,919 --> 00:24:07,560
way I like it well said thanks very much

607
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,960
Roshan Muhammad

608
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:12,799
[Music]

609
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:14,679
Sali and now it's your turn to tell us

610
00:24:12,799 --> 00:24:17,200
what you think through the portals of

611
00:24:14,679 --> 00:24:19,080
social media what's rling G Tre so in

612
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:22,000
the aftermath of the terrorist attacks

613
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:24,720
in Paris Where Do We Stand Britain as a

614
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:27,080
country Elizabeth says I'll be in favor

615
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:29,520
of action if it did some good but I've

616
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:31,440
got serious doubt about this will I fear

617
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:34,440
that we could experience reprisals like

618
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:36,240
77 and then she continues saying Western

619
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:38,520
intervention in the Middle East has

620
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:40,960
always been a disaster from dividing

621
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:43,960
Ottoman Empire to the more recent Iraq

622
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:47,520
Wars 100 Years of failure and takes then

623
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:50,159
says like 911 the NATO are using this

624
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:52,679
atrocity in Paris for their own devious

625
00:24:50,159 --> 00:24:56,799
and dishonest ends well that's certainly

626
00:24:52,679 --> 00:24:59,320
true uh but we have to set aside past

627
00:24:56,799 --> 00:25:02,240
differences now and come together

628
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:06,000
against the main enemy of all of us of

629
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:08,080
all Humanity which is Isis and Al-Qaeda

630
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,960
we'll have to return to other issues

631
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:12,200
we're dealing with a symptom and not a

632
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:15,399
cause that's for sure exct but if you

633
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:17,880
don't staunch the flow of blood from the

634
00:25:15,399 --> 00:25:20,200
symptoms you're not going to be alive to

635
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:22,440
deal with the cause and that's all that

636
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:24,360
we got time for this week which alas

637
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:26,919
means that's the end of the show you can

638
00:25:24,360 --> 00:25:29,360
stay in touch with us on Twitter at rtor

639
00:25:26,919 --> 00:25:32,159
Sputnik or Facebook Sputnik on Russia

640
00:25:29,360 --> 00:25:35,260
today it's goodbye from me gri and from

641
00:25:32,159 --> 00:25:44,329
me George Galloway it's been

642
00:25:35,260 --> 00:25:44,329
[Music]

643
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,520
marvelous