1 00:00:10,940 --> 00:00:19,040 [Music] 2 00:00:16,700 --> 00:00:22,040 I'm George Galloway and I present Cal 3 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:23,330 Imahara on our my Dean television here 4 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:27,110 we are in London 5 00:00:23,330 --> 00:00:29,570 I speak my words really either in 6 00:00:27,110 --> 00:00:32,960 Parliament on television here on the 7 00:00:29,570 --> 00:00:37,040 streets of London Cal Imahara means free 8 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:39,860 work - for ice cream - Cal Imahara in 9 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:44,629 the two-way conversation check it out on 10 00:00:39,860 --> 00:00:46,699 our my Edina television welcome to Cali 11 00:00:44,629 --> 00:00:48,860 Mahalo with me George Galloway on Al 12 00:00:46,699 --> 00:00:53,479 mayadeen television coming to you from 13 00:00:48,860 --> 00:00:56,780 London but discussing Sudan I'm so old I 14 00:00:53,479 --> 00:01:00,229 was in her tomb on the day that 15 00:00:56,780 --> 00:01:03,530 President Nomura was overthrown there 16 00:01:00,229 --> 00:01:05,299 have been a few memories since I've seen 17 00:01:03,530 --> 00:01:08,350 them come and go 18 00:01:05,299 --> 00:01:11,630 the history of Sudan is one of 19 00:01:08,350 --> 00:01:12,500 colonization and dictatorship but for 20 00:01:11,630 --> 00:01:16,490 very brief 21 00:01:12,500 --> 00:01:20,840 interregnum I interviewed the former 22 00:01:16,490 --> 00:01:24,560 dictator General Bashir seven years ago 23 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:27,829 in Khartoum he promised me that he would 24 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:30,859 not under any circumstances stand for 25 00:01:27,829 --> 00:01:33,380 re-election for a father term he 26 00:01:30,859 --> 00:01:36,259 promptly broke that promise and then was 27 00:01:33,380 --> 00:01:38,929 about to break it all over again and the 28 00:01:36,259 --> 00:01:42,560 people of Sudan had had enough and they 29 00:01:38,929 --> 00:01:46,429 rose up in a huge swelling of popular 30 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:49,789 democracy protest demands for the 31 00:01:46,429 --> 00:01:54,109 military to deem it office and for the 32 00:01:49,789 --> 00:01:58,939 people to attain power they succeeded 33 00:01:54,109 --> 00:02:00,799 and Bashir is now in jail though I don't 34 00:01:58,939 --> 00:02:03,920 know where his money is and neither do 35 00:02:00,799 --> 00:02:07,969 the people of Sudan but he has been 36 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:12,110 replaced not by popular power but by a 37 00:02:07,969 --> 00:02:16,160 military Transitional Council of which 38 00:02:12,110 --> 00:02:19,850 one man is undoubtedly calling the shots 39 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:21,560 he's called general Hamden though nobody 40 00:02:19,850 --> 00:02:24,799 knows how he got to be a general as he 41 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:27,709 has no military training he has his own 42 00:02:24,799 --> 00:02:30,680 army argue according to the New York 43 00:02:27,709 --> 00:02:33,829 Times 50,000 fighters 44 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:37,549 his own militia he's calling the shots 45 00:02:33,829 --> 00:02:40,969 the uprising of the people of Sudan has 46 00:02:37,549 --> 00:02:44,090 been drowned in blood at least for now 47 00:02:40,969 --> 00:02:47,180 literally drowned in the Nile with well 48 00:02:44,090 --> 00:02:51,620 over a hundred protesters moderate well 49 00:02:47,180 --> 00:02:55,459 attested examples of rape being used as 50 00:02:51,620 --> 00:02:59,030 a method of political terror brutality 51 00:02:55,459 --> 00:03:02,060 torture all the usual paraphernalia of a 52 00:02:59,030 --> 00:03:04,879 military crackdown the internet has been 53 00:03:02,060 --> 00:03:08,659 switched off an internet which had been 54 00:03:04,879 --> 00:03:12,799 key to the communications of the people 55 00:03:08,659 --> 00:03:16,129 in the uprising the television news 56 00:03:12,799 --> 00:03:19,489 never free is now heavily militarized 57 00:03:16,129 --> 00:03:23,359 the media is under the control of the 58 00:03:19,489 --> 00:03:27,950 men in khaki the question is on whose 59 00:03:23,359 --> 00:03:31,459 behalf are the new junta operating what 60 00:03:27,950 --> 00:03:35,750 are their intentions who is behind them 61 00:03:31,459 --> 00:03:39,319 and will the demands for popular power 62 00:03:35,750 --> 00:03:43,190 people power in Sudan succeed in 63 00:03:39,319 --> 00:03:46,849 reviving itself and will the people be 64 00:03:43,190 --> 00:03:49,549 able to realize the dream of popular 65 00:03:46,849 --> 00:03:51,909 democracy I have an audience of 66 00:03:49,549 --> 00:03:55,129 distinguished experts and one or two 67 00:03:51,909 --> 00:03:57,349 enthusiastic amateurs like me so it's 68 00:03:55,129 --> 00:04:01,790 time to turn to the distinguished 69 00:03:57,349 --> 00:04:04,340 audience madam you have the floor good 70 00:04:01,790 --> 00:04:07,310 evening I'm sorry Julian the president 71 00:04:04,340 --> 00:04:09,590 of the Sudan doctors union in the UK I'm 72 00:04:07,310 --> 00:04:11,750 here because as a Sudanese woman I'm 73 00:04:09,590 --> 00:04:14,060 very proud of what the people of Sudan 74 00:04:11,750 --> 00:04:17,120 have achieved in the non-violent 75 00:04:14,060 --> 00:04:19,340 movement the peaceful resistance but as 76 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:21,620 a doctor who have been with my colleague 77 00:04:19,340 --> 00:04:24,289 always at the frontline driving towards 78 00:04:21,620 --> 00:04:27,860 change we have witnessed the casualties 79 00:04:24,289 --> 00:04:30,280 the injuries and reported rape cases and 80 00:04:27,860 --> 00:04:32,990 therefore we have been under a lot of 81 00:04:30,280 --> 00:04:35,300 austerity measures ourself being shot 82 00:04:32,990 --> 00:04:38,900 and killed and detained and arrested 83 00:04:35,300 --> 00:04:41,719 like all other people in Sudan so the 84 00:04:38,900 --> 00:04:43,729 question is and that's open for 85 00:04:41,719 --> 00:04:44,190 discussion if the people of Sudan have 86 00:04:43,729 --> 00:04:46,890 led 87 00:04:44,190 --> 00:04:50,610 six months a peaceful resistance and 88 00:04:46,890 --> 00:04:53,970 they avoided to be engaged in any army 89 00:04:50,610 --> 00:04:55,740 conflict why we cannot overcome the TMC 90 00:04:53,970 --> 00:04:57,720 the transition military council which is 91 00:04:55,740 --> 00:05:01,670 a continuation of the same regime and 92 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:05,610 the militia that has actually should be 93 00:05:01,670 --> 00:05:08,340 labeled as a terrorism group and why the 94 00:05:05,610 --> 00:05:10,680 regional and international forces are 95 00:05:08,340 --> 00:05:13,980 not supporting the peaceful resistance 96 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:15,690 to a change well maybe because they 97 00:05:13,980 --> 00:05:18,030 don't want it to be catching in their 98 00:05:15,690 --> 00:05:22,310 own countries how can countries 99 00:05:18,030 --> 00:05:26,640 themselves ruled by brutal military 100 00:05:22,310 --> 00:05:29,100 dictatorships possibly want people power 101 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:32,340 to come to power in Sudan that's the 102 00:05:29,100 --> 00:05:34,680 answer isn't it I think to some extent 103 00:05:32,340 --> 00:05:36,690 but they have to realize that this the 104 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:39,270 stability and the security in Sudan 105 00:05:36,690 --> 00:05:43,020 which is situated in a very important 106 00:05:39,270 --> 00:05:47,250 geopolitical area will have a positive 107 00:05:43,020 --> 00:05:49,290 sort of influence I think that the the 108 00:05:47,250 --> 00:05:51,060 the fight in Sudan is not just for 109 00:05:49,290 --> 00:05:54,950 Sudanese people I think it's a global 110 00:05:51,060 --> 00:05:56,700 fight for justice who else would like to 111 00:05:54,950 --> 00:06:00,000 respond yes sir 112 00:05:56,700 --> 00:06:01,490 my name is jihad madman and doctoral 113 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:04,290 researcher at the University of Exeter 114 00:06:01,490 --> 00:06:05,250 and thank you very much for allowing me 115 00:06:04,290 --> 00:06:08,280 to be part of this show 116 00:06:05,250 --> 00:06:09,720 I'm here the capacity as a researcher 117 00:06:08,280 --> 00:06:11,250 because I've been covering what's 118 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:13,669 happening in Sudan for a while and 119 00:06:11,250 --> 00:06:16,650 that's how I got to know dr. Sarah and 120 00:06:13,669 --> 00:06:18,570 what I realized is that there what's 121 00:06:16,650 --> 00:06:19,950 happening in Sudan now is inspiring that 122 00:06:18,570 --> 00:06:22,520 the number of this this movement is 123 00:06:19,950 --> 00:06:24,900 activated again where you'll find 124 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:26,669 organizers in the streets by whole 125 00:06:24,900 --> 00:06:29,340 protecting the neighborhoods and having 126 00:06:26,669 --> 00:06:31,260 cojito with each other however what's 127 00:06:29,340 --> 00:06:32,700 missing in this is I realized that 128 00:06:31,260 --> 00:06:36,150 International Committee is not doing 129 00:06:32,700 --> 00:06:39,360 enough to pressure regional countries in 130 00:06:36,150 --> 00:06:41,430 the region to pressure the TNC to give 131 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:42,720 up power I'm touched by your faith and 132 00:06:41,430 --> 00:06:46,080 what you call the international 133 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:48,740 community I'm touched 134 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:51,900 but I mean we have to use terminology 135 00:06:48,740 --> 00:06:55,280 scorpion stings because it's a scorpion 136 00:06:51,900 --> 00:06:58,139 the international community so-called 137 00:06:55,280 --> 00:07:01,460 betrays the Sudanese Revolution because 138 00:06:58,139 --> 00:07:03,599 of what it is because of what the 139 00:07:01,460 --> 00:07:06,479 international community is and what the 140 00:07:03,599 --> 00:07:08,099 Sudanese revolution is I do agree with 141 00:07:06,479 --> 00:07:10,849 you but I am using terms that they told 142 00:07:08,099 --> 00:07:13,319 me the air youth and academia 143 00:07:10,849 --> 00:07:16,169 international use these things here 144 00:07:13,319 --> 00:07:19,319 there as Tony Benn once said I realized 145 00:07:16,169 --> 00:07:22,409 at one point during the Iraq war that I 146 00:07:19,319 --> 00:07:24,449 knew one half of the international 147 00:07:22,409 --> 00:07:27,889 community because the international 148 00:07:24,449 --> 00:07:31,080 community was George Bush and Tony Blair 149 00:07:27,889 --> 00:07:33,419 that I agree with you but when I'm 150 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:35,039 talking about forces within the National 151 00:07:33,419 --> 00:07:37,379 Committee I'm talking about the US and 152 00:07:35,039 --> 00:07:40,800 the UK needs to take a leadership role 153 00:07:37,379 --> 00:07:43,440 in pressuring in Saudi Arabia Egypt and 154 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,949 the Emirates to force a TNC to give up 155 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,840 power 156 00:07:43,949 --> 00:07:48,930 who are these regional actors you think 157 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:53,340 that are behind the TMC and the 158 00:07:48,930 --> 00:07:56,190 resistance to democracy from what I can 159 00:07:53,340 --> 00:07:59,250 see it's Emirates emerged is having a 160 00:07:56,190 --> 00:08:04,050 heavy influence and it's like you see 161 00:07:59,250 --> 00:08:08,009 Sudan is an historic huge populous 162 00:08:04,050 --> 00:08:12,360 mighty country hmm the Emirates is a 163 00:08:08,009 --> 00:08:15,779 petrol station with a flag and and and 164 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:18,960 and a yachting marina in Dubai 165 00:08:15,779 --> 00:08:21,659 I can't accept because I know the 166 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:25,620 Sudanese people so well that they are 167 00:08:21,659 --> 00:08:29,310 going to dance to attune dictated by by 168 00:08:25,620 --> 00:08:31,560 a Bedouin Prince okay but then we have 169 00:08:29,310 --> 00:08:33,479 to look at the country's interest the 170 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:35,640 problem with the UAE in these countries 171 00:08:33,479 --> 00:08:38,070 is they don't understand if they give us 172 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:39,419 a civilian government power they're 173 00:08:38,070 --> 00:08:43,320 actually going to get their interests 174 00:08:39,419 --> 00:08:44,880 achieved I mean the UAE Egypt and solar 175 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,860 a bit of scared the Muslim brother would 176 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:49,680 come to power and that's why they're 177 00:08:46,860 --> 00:08:51,540 resisting a civilian how about what it's 178 00:08:49,680 --> 00:08:53,010 about you think fear of the Muslim 179 00:08:51,540 --> 00:08:54,630 Brotherhood fear of the Muslim 180 00:08:53,010 --> 00:08:56,940 Brotherhood and of course regional 181 00:08:54,630 --> 00:08:58,350 influence their training if specially 182 00:08:56,940 --> 00:08:59,899 the Emirates is trying it has its 183 00:08:58,350 --> 00:09:03,270 regional influence 184 00:08:59,899 --> 00:09:04,529 so if basically they need to understand 185 00:09:03,270 --> 00:09:06,060 that the civilian government would 186 00:09:04,529 --> 00:09:07,890 address this kind of concerns and 187 00:09:06,060 --> 00:09:11,190 international community including the US 188 00:09:07,890 --> 00:09:13,500 and Britain that they're concerned with 189 00:09:11,190 --> 00:09:15,000 regards to terrorism where would be 190 00:09:13,500 --> 00:09:17,339 resolved and immigration would be 191 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:19,950 resolved if they supporting States and 192 00:09:17,339 --> 00:09:22,830 Britain are behind most terrorism in the 193 00:09:19,950 --> 00:09:24,720 world you need to step out of academia 194 00:09:22,830 --> 00:09:27,480 my friends let's take the lady behind 195 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:29,610 yours cheers oh hello good evening 196 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:32,880 oh good afternoon my name is Somerset 197 00:09:29,610 --> 00:09:36,000 key I'm a visual artist and an activist 198 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:37,860 and a mother what I think about this 199 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,839 revolution to be honest with you I have 200 00:09:37,860 --> 00:09:42,720 a kind of different view or perspective 201 00:09:39,839 --> 00:09:46,200 from everyone else I've seen this 202 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:47,250 revolution from the beginning from 2013 203 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:49,649 since the start 204 00:09:47,250 --> 00:09:52,170 I believe this revolution has started in 205 00:09:49,649 --> 00:09:54,149 2013 and being stopping and going and 206 00:09:52,170 --> 00:09:55,770 stopping and going until now but 207 00:09:54,149 --> 00:09:58,560 unfortunately I've been watching Sudan 208 00:09:55,770 --> 00:10:00,959 since 2003 where a lot of Sudanese 209 00:09:58,560 --> 00:10:04,560 people did not know what was happening 210 00:10:00,959 --> 00:10:06,149 in Darfur therefore there was a genocide 211 00:10:04,560 --> 00:10:08,790 in Darfur and massacre of a lot of 212 00:10:06,149 --> 00:10:10,410 people the government said that they 213 00:10:08,790 --> 00:10:12,990 massacred these people because of 214 00:10:10,410 --> 00:10:14,370 religion war and I don't think it's true 215 00:10:12,990 --> 00:10:16,339 to be honest with you because I've been 216 00:10:14,370 --> 00:10:20,190 doing a lot of research about Sudan 217 00:10:16,339 --> 00:10:23,250 these same people now that massacred 218 00:10:20,190 --> 00:10:25,820 people in Darfur are in Khartoum and 219 00:10:23,250 --> 00:10:28,410 they are killing our people again and 220 00:10:25,820 --> 00:10:29,880 the first time Sudanese people in 221 00:10:28,410 --> 00:10:32,490 Khartoum and everywhere didn't know 222 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:34,500 about it because of media cuts of media 223 00:10:32,490 --> 00:10:37,500 and then you know internet and news and 224 00:10:34,500 --> 00:10:39,480 now again the world they know a little 225 00:10:37,500 --> 00:10:41,089 bit about Sudan but a lot of people 226 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:44,399 don't know where Sudan is and who we are 227 00:10:41,089 --> 00:10:47,339 but I believe the key lies in our hands 228 00:10:44,399 --> 00:10:50,130 the people that who are in America in 229 00:10:47,339 --> 00:10:53,820 the Sudanese that I mean in America in 230 00:10:50,130 --> 00:10:55,320 Britain in Canada and I'm looking at the 231 00:10:53,820 --> 00:10:58,649 problem with a different kind of 232 00:10:55,320 --> 00:11:00,690 perspective everyone is looking at peace 233 00:10:58,649 --> 00:11:03,149 and I believe in peace don't get me 234 00:11:00,690 --> 00:11:06,510 wrong but I also believe that we need to 235 00:11:03,149 --> 00:11:08,520 think ahead we need to think three four 236 00:11:06,510 --> 00:11:10,380 steps ahead you know what if these 237 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:12,209 people doesn't stop killing our people 238 00:11:10,380 --> 00:11:13,290 because we've seen the same thing before 239 00:11:12,209 --> 00:11:16,230 in Darfur 240 00:11:13,290 --> 00:11:18,810 so what if we can actually make a word 241 00:11:16,230 --> 00:11:21,360 globing a warning warning to people and 242 00:11:18,810 --> 00:11:23,040 we make it different from here obviously 243 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:26,400 the people incident they doing their 244 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:28,650 best to fight this regime but they can't 245 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:31,590 do anymore because I feel like when I 246 00:11:28,650 --> 00:11:33,420 look at them they they're scared they're 247 00:11:31,590 --> 00:11:35,130 lost a desperate they've been living in 248 00:11:33,420 --> 00:11:37,860 this regime for so many years suffering 249 00:11:35,130 --> 00:11:39,480 from economic problems in a country that 250 00:11:37,860 --> 00:11:41,610 it doesn't make any sense because our 251 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:44,310 country is full of goods but these 252 00:11:41,610 --> 00:11:46,500 people have destroyed their goods but I 253 00:11:44,310 --> 00:11:48,810 believe there's hope there's always hope 254 00:11:46,500 --> 00:11:52,260 only if to be honest we have the right 255 00:11:48,810 --> 00:11:54,630 leaders so I don't know how to end this 256 00:11:52,260 --> 00:11:56,760 but that's a good point to end it let's 257 00:11:54,630 --> 00:11:59,610 take the gentleman to along from you yes 258 00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:01,500 sir good evening my name is photodiode I 259 00:11:59,610 --> 00:12:04,830 am a PhD students at Durham University 260 00:12:01,500 --> 00:12:07,050 and I'm actually from Darfur region this 261 00:12:04,830 --> 00:12:09,300 lady she's spoken about and I've 262 00:12:07,050 --> 00:12:11,880 witnessed firsthand the atrocities 263 00:12:09,300 --> 00:12:13,260 committed by the second man in command 264 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:16,800 now in the TMC 265 00:12:13,260 --> 00:12:18,900 this hundin was a butcher of pi/4 I know 266 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:20,910 what they've committed firsthand since 267 00:12:18,900 --> 00:12:24,660 2000 C up to now but unfortunately 268 00:12:20,910 --> 00:12:27,510 really disappointing in 2015 when the EU 269 00:12:24,660 --> 00:12:29,370 tried to do a deal with the Hamdan in 270 00:12:27,510 --> 00:12:34,260 order to they call it they're gonna stop 271 00:12:29,370 --> 00:12:37,200 Islamic smuggling a migrant from Horn of 272 00:12:34,260 --> 00:12:38,760 Africa but they do know all the criminal 273 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:40,920 act that's being committed in therefore 274 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:43,800 by these guys and they do know there is 275 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:45,630 a restaurant from the ICC against over 276 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:47,970 Bashir and against his gender wit and 277 00:12:45,630 --> 00:12:50,370 his militia which is the same guys but 278 00:12:47,970 --> 00:12:52,880 he use a ten plan iron and they tried to 279 00:12:50,370 --> 00:12:56,160 do it if they actually did a deal in 280 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:58,920 2015 and they support this guy by a lot 281 00:12:56,160 --> 00:13:01,470 of money and they asked him to stop 282 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:02,940 migrant and we do know what they mean 283 00:13:01,470 --> 00:13:04,110 when they said we're gonna stop my guys 284 00:13:02,940 --> 00:13:06,240 because they're gonna treat them and 285 00:13:04,110 --> 00:13:08,040 humanely and they do all the things that 286 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:11,130 they're gonna do but the human watch 287 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:13,350 they could use a very good report 288 00:13:11,130 --> 00:13:15,480 condemning that agreement between the EU 289 00:13:13,350 --> 00:13:17,760 and the committee and the genuine 290 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:19,590 militia but the EU government they try 291 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:21,240 to hide that one and I bet you a lot of 292 00:13:19,590 --> 00:13:22,770 haven't heard about that agreement and 293 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:25,230 they didn't know what such agreement 294 00:13:22,770 --> 00:13:27,089 about so this gentleman went to LA 295 00:13:25,230 --> 00:13:30,120 speaking about the regional governments 296 00:13:27,089 --> 00:13:32,430 trying to support it traditionally the 297 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:34,110 government I actually I think those 298 00:13:32,430 --> 00:13:37,110 regional government they actually they 299 00:13:34,110 --> 00:13:39,089 are they are doing work on behalf of 300 00:13:37,110 --> 00:13:40,410 other peoples namely the Western 301 00:13:39,089 --> 00:13:44,430 government because they really don't 302 00:13:40,410 --> 00:13:46,439 need any stable civilian government in 303 00:13:44,430 --> 00:13:47,879 Africa or anywhere else but I think 304 00:13:46,439 --> 00:13:51,199 there's a nice will they will prevail 305 00:13:47,879 --> 00:13:53,699 and they will get a stop all this I 306 00:13:51,199 --> 00:13:56,009 would call it outside I in there and 307 00:13:53,699 --> 00:13:57,480 we're gonna establish our civilian 308 00:13:56,009 --> 00:13:59,100 government and civilian rule in Sudan 309 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:00,930 and we're gonna hope and build the 310 00:13:59,100 --> 00:14:03,180 government that we can hope for let's 311 00:14:00,930 --> 00:14:07,670 take a gentleman next year yes right 312 00:14:03,180 --> 00:14:10,559 next to ya my name is pastor and I'm 313 00:14:07,670 --> 00:14:13,139 director and telecom company the issue 314 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:14,459 we have is that we live in a dream I 315 00:14:13,139 --> 00:14:17,370 think and especially in our countries 316 00:14:14,459 --> 00:14:18,809 well we think that we are in control we 317 00:14:17,370 --> 00:14:19,769 actually think our people think that 318 00:14:18,809 --> 00:14:21,629 they've actually gained real 319 00:14:19,769 --> 00:14:23,339 independence since the colonization left 320 00:14:21,629 --> 00:14:25,949 our countries all of the Middle Eastern 321 00:14:23,339 --> 00:14:28,860 Africa and I think that's one of the the 322 00:14:25,949 --> 00:14:31,110 the biggest lies what happened is is the 323 00:14:28,860 --> 00:14:33,089 colonization is is just still there 324 00:14:31,110 --> 00:14:37,110 present but under different premises 325 00:14:33,089 --> 00:14:39,240 mosques and mainly with proxies and that 326 00:14:37,110 --> 00:14:40,559 explains the sort of the interference is 327 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:43,350 happening so when we ask now when we 328 00:14:40,559 --> 00:14:45,300 talked about Egypt or rollover and why 329 00:14:43,350 --> 00:14:46,800 the military council is touring around 330 00:14:45,300 --> 00:14:49,410 you know the middlee is going to 331 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:51,929 Emirates or going to Saudi basically 332 00:14:49,410 --> 00:14:54,569 this was like a instead of directly 333 00:14:51,929 --> 00:14:57,059 talking to the United States so people 334 00:14:54,569 --> 00:15:00,779 need to understand that the governments 335 00:14:57,059 --> 00:15:03,360 in Sudan you know Sudan is X colonized 336 00:15:00,779 --> 00:15:05,819 country when the British the British 337 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:10,230 left how America after the second world 338 00:15:05,819 --> 00:15:12,269 world came to that region by the way of 339 00:15:10,230 --> 00:15:13,829 military coups and and this is very 340 00:15:12,269 --> 00:15:16,259 important to realize so the numeri 341 00:15:13,829 --> 00:15:17,939 regime was actually pro-american but 342 00:15:16,259 --> 00:15:20,069 people didn't realize so they raised all 343 00:15:17,939 --> 00:15:21,600 these nationalistic you know views and 344 00:15:20,069 --> 00:15:23,879 stuff and slogans but actually they're 345 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:25,980 not naturalistic and and the Bashir 346 00:15:23,879 --> 00:15:28,350 regime is well raised the flag of Islam 347 00:15:25,980 --> 00:15:30,749 and being the country but actually it 348 00:15:28,350 --> 00:15:32,670 wasn't and underneath all the policies 349 00:15:30,749 --> 00:15:35,069 were actually homogenized by the 350 00:15:32,670 --> 00:15:37,410 international community and American 351 00:15:35,069 --> 00:15:39,420 policies of the World Bank etc which led 352 00:15:37,410 --> 00:15:40,620 Sudan to this dire situation and people 353 00:15:39,420 --> 00:15:42,930 going out on the street 354 00:15:40,620 --> 00:15:45,450 so to be able to fix that situation 355 00:15:42,930 --> 00:15:47,480 people in that country or an age does 356 00:15:45,450 --> 00:15:50,670 continue to get hold of their own 357 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:52,380 decisions and they need to really clear 358 00:15:50,670 --> 00:15:54,600 all those people sitting at the top 359 00:15:52,380 --> 00:15:57,060 where the military caocao or even 360 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:58,980 political parties anybody who is Christ 361 00:15:57,060 --> 00:16:02,430 who comes with an imported you know 362 00:15:58,980 --> 00:16:04,350 political agenda from outside should we 363 00:16:02,430 --> 00:16:05,480 be rejected the people should decide for 364 00:16:04,350 --> 00:16:09,019 themselves 365 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:09,019 [Applause] 366 00:16:09,740 --> 00:16:14,190 it's mow and mortar I'm from South Sudan 367 00:16:12,510 --> 00:16:17,640 political commentator from South Sudan 368 00:16:14,190 --> 00:16:21,180 our separate country from what remains 369 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:22,950 of Sudan I'm here to show our sympathy 370 00:16:21,180 --> 00:16:25,890 so she understands to the people of 371 00:16:22,950 --> 00:16:28,560 Sudan one reason that South Sudan became 372 00:16:25,890 --> 00:16:30,240 independent contrary to all the views 373 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:32,820 about international interference is 374 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:34,860 because the history of Sudan is full of 375 00:16:32,820 --> 00:16:37,290 two things one is the militarism and 376 00:16:34,860 --> 00:16:39,050 other things reactionary politics so 377 00:16:37,290 --> 00:16:44,010 Sudan was dominated by very very 378 00:16:39,050 --> 00:16:45,810 reactionary regimes that unfortunately 379 00:16:44,010 --> 00:16:48,420 they only had ten years in terms of 380 00:16:45,810 --> 00:16:51,089 civilian rule but the rest of the year 381 00:16:48,420 --> 00:16:52,260 since independence 64 years ago had been 382 00:16:51,089 --> 00:16:54,000 under military rule 383 00:16:52,260 --> 00:16:55,440 contrary to what will be said about new 384 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:57,750 Marion Mary came up as a socialist 385 00:16:55,440 --> 00:17:01,020 originally and then change colors as he 386 00:16:57,750 --> 00:17:03,630 you remember well the reason South Sudan 387 00:17:01,020 --> 00:17:06,929 for for independence is because it 388 00:17:03,630 --> 00:17:08,550 failed to convince the successive 389 00:17:06,929 --> 00:17:10,230 systems in the north that we need to 390 00:17:08,550 --> 00:17:11,790 have a pluralistic society that can 391 00:17:10,230 --> 00:17:13,470 accommodate different regions races 392 00:17:11,790 --> 00:17:16,380 languages and so on completely 393 00:17:13,470 --> 00:17:18,540 attractive that and this revolution is a 394 00:17:16,380 --> 00:17:20,429 continuation of Sudanese tradition that 395 00:17:18,540 --> 00:17:22,890 goes back many many decades there have 396 00:17:20,429 --> 00:17:26,459 been three religions and this is the 397 00:17:22,890 --> 00:17:29,730 third revolution in 1964 1985 and now 398 00:17:26,459 --> 00:17:32,160 and the people's aspirations all this 399 00:17:29,730 --> 00:17:33,810 time had been to create a new Sudan that 400 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:35,310 is pluralistic that can accommodate 401 00:17:33,810 --> 00:17:37,200 everyone that is visionary that is 402 00:17:35,310 --> 00:17:38,580 democratic and every time it has been 403 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:41,490 frustrated and this is what has happened 404 00:17:38,580 --> 00:17:44,250 now so rather than blame other forces we 405 00:17:41,490 --> 00:17:45,810 must blame the Sudanese leadership if 406 00:17:44,250 --> 00:17:47,010 have total sympathy with all these boys 407 00:17:45,810 --> 00:17:49,800 and girls that have been killed in the 408 00:17:47,010 --> 00:17:52,050 streets and there's no blame for any 409 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:54,470 external force except the Sudanese 410 00:17:52,050 --> 00:17:57,409 forces he made he done he mated 411 00:17:54,470 --> 00:17:59,240 the litter you are talking about hundun 412 00:17:57,409 --> 00:18:01,429 is the creation of the Sudanese system 413 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:04,100 is the creation of Bashir but she used 414 00:18:01,429 --> 00:18:06,259 him to fight a proxy war against Darfur 415 00:18:04,100 --> 00:18:10,820 with horrendous results against our own 416 00:18:06,259 --> 00:18:12,350 people in Darfur 300,000 previously of 417 00:18:10,820 --> 00:18:14,539 course there were similar wars in Sudan 418 00:18:12,350 --> 00:18:18,350 in the South in the name of Islam and so 419 00:18:14,539 --> 00:18:21,169 on we're two million resulting in to all 420 00:18:18,350 --> 00:18:21,620 this disaster so tragedy continues to 421 00:18:21,169 --> 00:18:23,870 this day 422 00:18:21,620 --> 00:18:25,730 and the only hope for Sudan and 423 00:18:23,870 --> 00:18:28,580 consequently for South Sudan as well is 424 00:18:25,730 --> 00:18:31,279 the success of this revolution why are 425 00:18:28,580 --> 00:18:33,409 the Arabs involved why is salary 426 00:18:31,279 --> 00:18:34,879 interested simple story they have the 427 00:18:33,409 --> 00:18:36,740 money and the series don't have money 428 00:18:34,879 --> 00:18:40,820 they basically are paying for the slave 429 00:18:36,740 --> 00:18:42,259 army to fight in Yemen and and that's 430 00:18:40,820 --> 00:18:43,940 really the reason why they want to keep 431 00:18:42,259 --> 00:18:45,110 him a leader that's why the reason that 432 00:18:43,940 --> 00:18:47,419 this Baba 433 00:18:45,110 --> 00:18:50,210 boron is there both of them are 434 00:18:47,419 --> 00:18:53,029 productive for a war and they are being 435 00:18:50,210 --> 00:18:58,399 paid directly by the side is to keep the 436 00:18:53,029 --> 00:19:00,529 army there thank you thank you George my 437 00:18:58,399 --> 00:19:03,169 name is Sarah Yousuf Ali I'm political 438 00:19:00,529 --> 00:19:08,210 and social commentator issues happening 439 00:19:03,169 --> 00:19:10,700 in East Africa and Middle East I have to 440 00:19:08,210 --> 00:19:13,759 highlight something that may be of 441 00:19:10,700 --> 00:19:17,059 interest to everybody here and those who 442 00:19:13,759 --> 00:19:21,289 might have the chance to view it the 443 00:19:17,059 --> 00:19:27,860 protest wasn't expecting the Jade 444 00:19:21,289 --> 00:19:30,320 outcome they were simply after economic 445 00:19:27,860 --> 00:19:34,220 reforms they want they were demanding an 446 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:38,240 end to the authorities the tripling of 447 00:19:34,220 --> 00:19:41,570 the commodities prices they wanted an 448 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:45,889 end to abuse of authority political 449 00:19:41,570 --> 00:19:49,279 repression they were after things like 450 00:19:45,889 --> 00:19:54,529 the limitation of ATM withdrawals 451 00:19:49,279 --> 00:19:57,139 they were also after things like 452 00:19:54,529 --> 00:19:59,480 devaluation of their currency at the 453 00:19:57,139 --> 00:20:02,419 time of these protests the inflation was 454 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:04,610 70 percentage high the country was 455 00:20:02,419 --> 00:20:08,270 running out it is foreign currency 456 00:20:04,610 --> 00:20:12,580 so the unexpected the unthinkable happen 457 00:20:08,270 --> 00:20:17,390 when they saw they had a momentum the 458 00:20:12,580 --> 00:20:22,190 demand is for economic reform shifted 459 00:20:17,390 --> 00:20:23,030 and gingi to demand is for Beshear to 460 00:20:22,190 --> 00:20:26,150 step down 461 00:20:23,030 --> 00:20:29,180 I think he'd they achieve it but there 462 00:20:26,150 --> 00:20:33,020 was a price to pay for that on the 3rd 463 00:20:29,180 --> 00:20:38,570 of this month June the 3rd part of this 464 00:20:33,020 --> 00:20:43,070 story was the Khartoum Aska hundred 465 00:20:38,570 --> 00:20:45,500 people have been brutally killed by the 466 00:20:43,070 --> 00:20:49,520 transitional military council militia 467 00:20:45,500 --> 00:20:56,210 and the Janjaweed which everybody knows 468 00:20:49,520 --> 00:21:00,830 the history there were 650 rape cases 469 00:20:56,210 --> 00:21:03,230 that took place there were also the 470 00:21:00,830 --> 00:21:05,510 people who have been murdered which are 471 00:21:03,230 --> 00:21:08,030 believed to be above one hundred more 472 00:21:05,510 --> 00:21:12,200 than hundred people full of them were 473 00:21:08,030 --> 00:21:14,720 thrown into the Nile River I think a lot 474 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:18,500 hundreds of arrestees terrorizing 475 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:21,530 families all these were atrocities 476 00:21:18,500 --> 00:21:24,530 carried out by the security men from 477 00:21:21,530 --> 00:21:28,730 transitional military council and the 478 00:21:24,530 --> 00:21:32,510 gen do it under the name of rabid 479 00:21:28,730 --> 00:21:34,460 support forces I think this has to be 480 00:21:32,510 --> 00:21:37,330 held accountable because in Africa the 481 00:21:34,460 --> 00:21:41,390 problem we have somebody comes into a 482 00:21:37,330 --> 00:21:43,850 situation carries out massacres and gets 483 00:21:41,390 --> 00:21:47,390 away with it what is happening people 484 00:21:43,850 --> 00:21:51,100 will say let us look the man Omar 485 00:21:47,390 --> 00:21:57,080 al-bashir himself he came into the power 486 00:21:51,100 --> 00:21:59,120 1989 a year after whether he was behind 487 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:03,080 it or didn't know it and some people 488 00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:07,310 also blame hasanat Rabi Osama bin Laden 489 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:09,920 was invited into Sudan and soon after 490 00:22:07,310 --> 00:22:12,620 that happened America got angry and they 491 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:15,730 listed Sudan put the name of Sudan into 492 00:22:12,620 --> 00:22:19,570 the list of terrorist disposals 493 00:22:15,730 --> 00:22:23,260 after 17 years of of of of a period 494 00:22:19,570 --> 00:22:27,770 things changed during the brocco Obama's 495 00:22:23,260 --> 00:22:31,220 regime the present of United States have 496 00:22:27,770 --> 00:22:33,950 lifted the sanctions many elements of 497 00:22:31,220 --> 00:22:38,299 the sanctions he also freed the assets 498 00:22:33,950 --> 00:22:41,900 frozen by the United States and within 499 00:22:38,299 --> 00:22:46,429 the same year 2017 500 00:22:41,900 --> 00:22:49,429 came Trump in October he lifted the 501 00:22:46,429 --> 00:22:52,809 remaining sanctions you can understand 502 00:22:49,429 --> 00:22:56,900 from these two actions that Umar was 503 00:22:52,809 --> 00:23:00,260 allowing himself policing the United 504 00:22:56,900 --> 00:23:03,710 States in terms of meeting their foreign 505 00:23:00,260 --> 00:23:05,210 policy agenda one of the things that 506 00:23:03,710 --> 00:23:08,540 happened was there was a corruption 507 00:23:05,210 --> 00:23:13,280 millions of dollars were found in his 508 00:23:08,540 --> 00:23:15,919 own yard other was embattlement one 509 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:18,250 thing that has been mentioned by the 510 00:23:15,919 --> 00:23:21,440 people who spoke before me that is 511 00:23:18,250 --> 00:23:25,190 affecting all of us in the region is the 512 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:27,650 an endless intervention of the United 513 00:23:25,190 --> 00:23:30,380 Arab Emirates in our regions they are 514 00:23:27,650 --> 00:23:32,690 favoring the military to be empowered so 515 00:23:30,380 --> 00:23:35,870 that they could use what my colleague 516 00:23:32,690 --> 00:23:38,840 has described it is slave soldiers to 517 00:23:35,870 --> 00:23:41,660 keep their fighters against the Houthis 518 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:43,419 in Yemen who knew the United Arab 519 00:23:41,660 --> 00:23:46,100 Emirates would have a loom so large 520 00:23:43,419 --> 00:23:48,130 there's much more of this after the 521 00:23:46,100 --> 00:23:48,130 break 522 00:23:49,210 --> 00:23:50,560 you 523 00:23:49,590 --> 00:23:54,310 [Applause] 524 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:54,310 [Music] 525 00:24:01,490 --> 00:24:08,789 [Music] 526 00:24:05,989 --> 00:24:11,039 you're watching calamara with me George 527 00:24:08,789 --> 00:24:13,049 Galloway for Al mayadeen television 528 00:24:11,039 --> 00:24:15,720 coming from London talking about the 529 00:24:13,049 --> 00:24:18,809 Sudan earlier we took the kalam ahora 530 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:20,369 camera onto the streets of London to see 531 00:24:18,809 --> 00:24:30,629 what the people thought let's take a 532 00:24:20,369 --> 00:24:33,799 look do you think there are any external 533 00:24:30,629 --> 00:24:36,559 motivations behind the unrest in Sudan 534 00:24:33,799 --> 00:24:39,359 well I guess there's a couple I guess 535 00:24:36,559 --> 00:24:44,789 some civilian unrest and then political 536 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:46,649 unrest there'd be an issue if the people 537 00:24:44,789 --> 00:24:49,019 don't get their voices heard because 538 00:24:46,649 --> 00:24:51,559 they're the ones ultimately who should 539 00:24:49,019 --> 00:24:54,779 have to say in their country and I think 540 00:24:51,559 --> 00:24:57,029 any complete in the world there is many 541 00:24:54,779 --> 00:24:58,369 interests I mean there are always public 542 00:24:57,029 --> 00:25:01,409 people around the world who you know 543 00:24:58,369 --> 00:25:03,479 control everything we do I mean every 544 00:25:01,409 --> 00:25:08,249 news standing now in doing this country 545 00:25:03,479 --> 00:25:13,379 so it could be some it could be anyone I 546 00:25:08,249 --> 00:25:15,899 think it is the military because they 547 00:25:13,379 --> 00:25:17,669 are conflicting with the civilian I 548 00:25:15,899 --> 00:25:19,950 believe there's a lot of external 549 00:25:17,669 --> 00:25:21,899 activity happen in a lot of areas and I 550 00:25:19,950 --> 00:25:24,779 believe that people who are being 551 00:25:21,899 --> 00:25:28,289 confused by the rationality of the 552 00:25:24,779 --> 00:25:31,409 government and the people sedan need to 553 00:25:28,289 --> 00:25:33,840 take back their power and push out all 554 00:25:31,409 --> 00:25:37,549 this external help that's coming from 555 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,549 maybe the superpowers 556 00:25:39,330 --> 00:25:43,470 do you think the recent coup in Sudan 557 00:25:41,879 --> 00:25:46,529 has anything to do with the standoff 558 00:25:43,470 --> 00:25:50,399 between the US China other world powers 559 00:25:46,529 --> 00:25:55,409 such as Saudi Arabia and so on I think 560 00:25:50,399 --> 00:25:59,159 so I think so because if we look for the 561 00:25:55,409 --> 00:26:02,039 Sudan Sudan has not enough power to men 562 00:25:59,159 --> 00:26:07,169 to maintain the conflict for long years 563 00:26:02,039 --> 00:26:10,679 so there is there is some powers behind 564 00:26:07,169 --> 00:26:13,889 them behind the politics yeah I guess 565 00:26:10,679 --> 00:26:16,350 Central Africa is a pretty unstable area 566 00:26:13,889 --> 00:26:19,049 at the moment there's huge economic base 567 00:26:16,350 --> 00:26:22,830 gains to get by getting a kind of a 568 00:26:19,049 --> 00:26:24,269 foothold in the region it's probably one 569 00:26:22,830 --> 00:26:25,980 of those things where it's not the 570 00:26:24,269 --> 00:26:28,080 decisions aren't be made for the people 571 00:26:25,980 --> 00:26:30,899 it's gotta be made with a economic 572 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:33,480 motive I think there is a lot of oil and 573 00:26:30,899 --> 00:26:36,600 you know a lot of like a precious thing 574 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:40,220 that maybe other people want to get well 575 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:43,679 right now it's all about money and 576 00:26:40,220 --> 00:26:46,009 central Africa is where the money's at 577 00:26:43,679 --> 00:26:49,200 whoa should I say the resources and 578 00:26:46,009 --> 00:26:53,190 control of the resources is control of 579 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:54,720 power and I believe all the super powers 580 00:26:53,190 --> 00:26:56,220 are trying to do their best to get on 581 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:56,999 their hand to get their hands on it 582 00:26:56,220 --> 00:26:58,980 first 583 00:26:56,999 --> 00:27:02,489 it's first come first serve so 584 00:26:58,980 --> 00:27:03,919 definitely definitely all right so it's 585 00:27:02,489 --> 00:27:08,149 all basically because of the natural 586 00:27:03,919 --> 00:27:12,119 resources that Sudan has so basically 587 00:27:08,149 --> 00:27:15,600 America China Russia they they just 588 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:17,240 wanted to get those natural resources 589 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:22,210 and have it on their own 590 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:24,559 [Music] 591 00:27:22,210 --> 00:27:26,179 some clever people on the streets of 592 00:27:24,559 --> 00:27:29,090 London there yes let's take the 593 00:27:26,179 --> 00:27:30,830 gentleman in the middle yes good evening 594 00:27:29,090 --> 00:27:34,159 my name is Sudhir Gosselin I'm a member 595 00:27:30,830 --> 00:27:36,470 of the popular cultures in Sudan I 596 00:27:34,159 --> 00:27:39,019 totally agree with the brother from 597 00:27:36,470 --> 00:27:43,009 South Sudan and the brother there who 598 00:27:39,019 --> 00:27:45,139 said our elements of the of our 599 00:27:43,009 --> 00:27:48,470 political system some of them are 600 00:27:45,139 --> 00:27:51,169 proxies for from from outside I would 601 00:27:48,470 --> 00:27:53,629 say our whole political system is being 602 00:27:51,169 --> 00:27:56,179 created by the same power that colonized 603 00:27:53,629 --> 00:27:58,850 Sudan before before they left they make 604 00:27:56,179 --> 00:28:02,749 sure that they have their leaders that 605 00:27:58,850 --> 00:28:06,950 we have the same political setup and we 606 00:28:02,749 --> 00:28:10,840 never have the chance to sit down and do 607 00:28:06,950 --> 00:28:14,179 our own social economic political 608 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:18,019 settlement the last regime just 609 00:28:14,179 --> 00:28:18,499 developed what he got from all the 610 00:28:18,019 --> 00:28:21,619 regimes 611 00:28:18,499 --> 00:28:23,749 the war in Darfur didn't broke during 612 00:28:21,619 --> 00:28:26,990 the Omar Bashir only that's a lie 613 00:28:23,749 --> 00:28:29,539 because this system has been going on 614 00:28:26,990 --> 00:28:34,090 since the 60s some of our political 615 00:28:29,539 --> 00:28:37,220 parties were arming tribes in there for 616 00:28:34,090 --> 00:28:37,490 openly and that's been known for for so 617 00:28:37,220 --> 00:28:39,950 long 618 00:28:37,490 --> 00:28:43,070 or Basile develop the system develop 619 00:28:39,950 --> 00:28:46,820 this social development and he used 620 00:28:43,070 --> 00:28:51,669 these people to fight against the 621 00:28:46,820 --> 00:28:55,429 uprising that's calling for an adjust 622 00:28:51,669 --> 00:28:57,619 federal system in the center and what 623 00:28:55,429 --> 00:29:03,019 we're seeing now let me tell you 624 00:28:57,619 --> 00:29:06,919 something the same day the the army came 625 00:29:03,019 --> 00:29:09,169 to aside themselves with the revolution 626 00:29:06,919 --> 00:29:13,519 with the uprising in Sudan which is the 627 00:29:09,169 --> 00:29:15,769 11th of April the same day five of the 628 00:29:13,519 --> 00:29:19,820 political leaders of the so-called 629 00:29:15,769 --> 00:29:23,570 freedom and change were summoned to Abu 630 00:29:19,820 --> 00:29:25,850 Dhabi to do what to do it one of them 631 00:29:23,570 --> 00:29:29,779 came out of that meeting he wrote very 632 00:29:25,850 --> 00:29:32,580 clear there is now a regional power that 633 00:29:29,779 --> 00:29:35,280 have no interest in democracy 634 00:29:32,580 --> 00:29:38,880 in the region but this way this region 635 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:42,120 bar have a very clear mandate against 636 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:46,170 the political Islam and we are the 637 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:49,790 leaders should align ourselves without 638 00:29:46,170 --> 00:29:52,440 any reservation with that regional power 639 00:29:49,790 --> 00:29:54,810 unfortunately he is my friend is a very 640 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:57,390 close friend to mine and we we used 641 00:29:54,810 --> 00:30:01,020 talking and I immediately I text him the 642 00:29:57,390 --> 00:30:03,720 minute I wrote read what he wrote I text 643 00:30:01,020 --> 00:30:05,250 him I can't believe you saying this he 644 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,420 said what's wrong with it I said 645 00:30:05,250 --> 00:30:09,150 everything is wrong with it 646 00:30:06,420 --> 00:30:11,790 you aligning with yourself with an 647 00:30:09,150 --> 00:30:14,460 international or regional power against 648 00:30:11,790 --> 00:30:17,130 your local national opponent how's that 649 00:30:14,460 --> 00:30:20,280 democratic what are you talking about 650 00:30:17,130 --> 00:30:23,910 you you are just another Procrit you 651 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:26,310 fighting for decades for something when 652 00:30:23,910 --> 00:30:29,760 it came you don't have you don't want to 653 00:30:26,310 --> 00:30:31,770 grab it you're going outside to seek 654 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:34,140 alliance with other people who have no 655 00:30:31,770 --> 00:30:36,480 interest in your country who have no 656 00:30:34,140 --> 00:30:38,430 interest in democracy you are just 657 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:41,580 another dictator you are just another 658 00:30:38,430 --> 00:30:44,820 Bashir for me so what is happening now 659 00:30:41,580 --> 00:30:46,890 we have to sit down and realize there is 660 00:30:44,820 --> 00:30:49,710 a big social development in Sudan 661 00:30:46,890 --> 00:30:53,790 happening in therefore happening in the 662 00:30:49,710 --> 00:30:56,580 center the people who go out went out in 663 00:30:53,790 --> 00:30:58,590 the street and this is this uprising is 664 00:30:56,580 --> 00:31:02,220 the new generation this new generation 665 00:30:58,590 --> 00:31:05,310 was was never there before why because 666 00:31:02,220 --> 00:31:08,280 the old system didn't want the people to 667 00:31:05,310 --> 00:31:11,460 have enough education and enough 668 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:13,710 knowledge and they kept us with two or 669 00:31:11,460 --> 00:31:18,000 three University in the whole suit on 670 00:31:13,710 --> 00:31:20,220 Sudan now there are like 10 tens of of 671 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:23,220 universities in Sudan and this is the 672 00:31:20,220 --> 00:31:26,600 product the new product the new social 673 00:31:23,220 --> 00:31:29,750 development if we don't address it 674 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:32,340 morally if we don't address it 675 00:31:29,750 --> 00:31:35,910 politically and if we don't address it 676 00:31:32,340 --> 00:31:38,430 wisely we're gonna go into a full-scale 677 00:31:35,910 --> 00:31:40,590 civil war the same war we launched 678 00:31:38,430 --> 00:31:43,440 against the South the same one we 679 00:31:40,590 --> 00:31:45,970 launched before against Darfur it's just 680 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:47,680 being now centralizing 681 00:31:45,970 --> 00:31:49,990 very interesting let's take a gentleman 682 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:52,660 in the front row thank you very much for 683 00:31:49,990 --> 00:31:55,090 having me my name is Abdullah Herod the 684 00:31:52,660 --> 00:31:58,540 president of Somali National Council I 685 00:31:55,090 --> 00:32:02,260 would like to highlight some the you 686 00:31:58,540 --> 00:32:05,380 know the key issues about Sudan and the 687 00:32:02,260 --> 00:32:07,300 regional players we you know hearing 688 00:32:05,380 --> 00:32:09,610 like all the time 689 00:32:07,300 --> 00:32:14,310 Emirates involvement Saudi Arabia's 690 00:32:09,610 --> 00:32:18,640 involvement you know and also a 691 00:32:14,310 --> 00:32:21,040 malicious which is you know not under 692 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:22,750 the control of the government and we 693 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:26,860 don't know who they are who support them 694 00:32:22,750 --> 00:32:31,840 financially so since the invasion of 695 00:32:26,860 --> 00:32:36,520 Iraq we had a company called Blackwater 696 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:40,480 led by Eric brains and they the world 697 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:43,870 known since the the massacre of Tahrir 698 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:46,020 Square in Baghdad that's when they come 699 00:32:43,870 --> 00:32:49,830 out since then they started organizing 700 00:32:46,020 --> 00:32:53,550 lot of a political chaos in the region 701 00:32:49,830 --> 00:32:56,440 and they most of the time trying to 702 00:32:53,550 --> 00:32:59,490 integrate within the you know the 703 00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:03,190 revolution is all within the government 704 00:32:59,490 --> 00:33:06,670 so what is happening in Sudan is what 705 00:33:03,190 --> 00:33:10,120 had happened in Somalia what we would 706 00:33:06,670 --> 00:33:13,450 advise is number one to reorganize 707 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:17,460 yourselves rely on the Sudanese only 708 00:33:13,450 --> 00:33:21,610 even if he is a dictator or non dictator 709 00:33:17,460 --> 00:33:24,220 what is in between it is disastrous and 710 00:33:21,610 --> 00:33:27,640 I'm sure they will pay the price if the 711 00:33:24,220 --> 00:33:30,280 Sudanese people don't be aware of this 712 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:33,760 kind of involvement because the American 713 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:35,890 and Britain they especially America 714 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:38,470 launched war on democracy they are 715 00:33:35,890 --> 00:33:41,890 playing and game to rule the whole world 716 00:33:38,470 --> 00:33:44,740 to colonize the world in a very smart 717 00:33:41,890 --> 00:33:46,660 way sending their spies to lead those 718 00:33:44,740 --> 00:33:48,910 countries like what had what's happening 719 00:33:46,660 --> 00:33:50,830 like Somalia at the moment what had 720 00:33:48,910 --> 00:33:53,200 happened in Libya what's happening in 721 00:33:50,830 --> 00:33:56,560 Iraq they creating problems look what 722 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:59,200 had happen in Syria they creating 723 00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,720 problem and then they try to get way to 724 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,640 invade 725 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:03,650 those countries and to send their voice 726 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,539 to lead those nations this kind of 727 00:34:03,650 --> 00:34:08,389 terrorism we are fighting Somalia you 728 00:34:05,539 --> 00:34:11,149 had al-shabaab al-shabaab I know every 729 00:34:08,389 --> 00:34:13,609 single leader in Al Shabaab where they 730 00:34:11,149 --> 00:34:15,710 born how they started how they are who 731 00:34:13,609 --> 00:34:19,310 supporting them who financially giving 732 00:34:15,710 --> 00:34:21,770 this you know chemicals even Somali 733 00:34:19,310 --> 00:34:24,409 government cannot have the license to 734 00:34:21,770 --> 00:34:28,879 you know import those kind of chemicals 735 00:34:24,409 --> 00:34:31,359 to create this kind of bombs so what we 736 00:34:28,879 --> 00:34:35,750 are trying to you know I say it's like 737 00:34:31,359 --> 00:34:38,869 whenever we had a more art through the 738 00:34:35,750 --> 00:34:41,869 Arabia they cannot even put their hands 739 00:34:38,869 --> 00:34:45,800 up if the America or Britain wants to 740 00:34:41,869 --> 00:34:49,310 you know for them to do it so let's take 741 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:51,500 the lady here in the middle hi my name 742 00:34:49,310 --> 00:34:55,399 is Ronnie and I am so then he's living 743 00:34:51,500 --> 00:35:00,320 in UK in London I think I agree with 744 00:34:55,399 --> 00:35:06,470 almost everyone in that what's happening 745 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:08,780 in in the region or in Africa has a and 746 00:35:06,470 --> 00:35:11,330 into an international interference and 747 00:35:08,780 --> 00:35:14,480 with regards to Sudan 748 00:35:11,330 --> 00:35:19,220 I think they the direct evidence for 749 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:22,820 that is they Russia and China taking the 750 00:35:19,220 --> 00:35:26,270 veto against UN involvement in taking 751 00:35:22,820 --> 00:35:28,580 peace the gentleman here pointed out 752 00:35:26,270 --> 00:35:32,000 about the massacre on the 3rd of June 753 00:35:28,580 --> 00:35:34,570 and that was that that was something I 754 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:38,720 mean in in the social media alone 755 00:35:34,570 --> 00:35:40,130 everyone almost everyone was was taking 756 00:35:38,720 --> 00:35:45,950 interest in what's happening because 757 00:35:40,130 --> 00:35:50,089 this is beyond beyond what what human 758 00:35:45,950 --> 00:35:52,310 being could think about but then what we 759 00:35:50,089 --> 00:35:55,760 found is that Russia and China they just 760 00:35:52,310 --> 00:36:00,680 waited out this this decision that the 761 00:35:55,760 --> 00:36:03,589 UN could get involved so I think III 762 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:08,780 totally agree that the the international 763 00:36:03,589 --> 00:36:10,400 interference is what's going on and the 764 00:36:08,780 --> 00:36:13,580 way for the international interference 765 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:18,680 is that they have to have someone who 766 00:36:13,580 --> 00:36:22,360 whom they can you know can can move 767 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:24,200 around and if if the people took over 768 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:27,260 that's what we want 769 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:30,560 in Sudan is a civilian government then 770 00:36:27,260 --> 00:36:33,920 that would be the people's wish and that 771 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:35,570 again is the international interest and 772 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:39,590 this is why then do you have faith in 773 00:36:35,570 --> 00:36:41,510 the United Nations why do we have what 774 00:36:39,590 --> 00:36:45,320 would be good about United Nations 775 00:36:41,510 --> 00:36:50,390 involvement in Sudan well for the time 776 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:56,480 being I think what we clearly fighting 777 00:36:50,390 --> 00:36:59,450 now is they the United Arab and the 778 00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:03,490 Saudi Arabia and Egypt would these 779 00:36:59,450 --> 00:37:08,020 countries have direct involvement so 780 00:37:03,490 --> 00:37:13,210 clearly we don't want these involvement 781 00:37:08,020 --> 00:37:18,550 the UN they have even if it's decision a 782 00:37:13,210 --> 00:37:22,600 pressure from the UN someone 783 00:37:18,550 --> 00:37:29,380 collectively they should have a 784 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:32,390 something against those countries so 785 00:37:29,380 --> 00:37:35,360 what's happening now it's the people 786 00:37:32,390 --> 00:37:38,360 there there is an equal forces it's the 787 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:42,700 people against a transitional military 788 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:47,840 council with the zhengzhou eight who are 789 00:37:42,700 --> 00:37:49,970 there giving extreme they're using life 790 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,840 emissions they're doing what they're 791 00:37:49,970 --> 00:37:54,590 doing is horrific 792 00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:57,140 so people alone could not really fight 793 00:37:54,590 --> 00:37:59,660 them okay let's take a gentleman at the 794 00:37:57,140 --> 00:38:02,900 front my name is tuwana Youssef I'm TV 795 00:37:59,660 --> 00:38:05,240 presenter and also I represent akashi an 796 00:38:02,900 --> 00:38:08,120 organization I'll not say two thing is 797 00:38:05,240 --> 00:38:12,710 my brothers of Sudan Somalia had almost 798 00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:14,450 30 years of division we had a foreign 799 00:38:12,710 --> 00:38:18,260 intervention including United States 800 00:38:14,450 --> 00:38:21,530 United State came to Somalia 1992 and 801 00:38:18,260 --> 00:38:23,900 left with empty hands and and civilian 802 00:38:21,530 --> 00:38:25,090 days more than 10,000 somali mogadishu 803 00:38:23,900 --> 00:38:27,370 particular 804 00:38:25,090 --> 00:38:29,620 and the Arabs have been intervening in 805 00:38:27,370 --> 00:38:32,770 our country nothing they have done so I 806 00:38:29,620 --> 00:38:34,900 would like to warn all Sudanese people 807 00:38:32,770 --> 00:38:37,600 those who live abroad and those who live 808 00:38:34,900 --> 00:38:40,510 inside the country unless you sit 809 00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:43,180 together and work together nobody is 810 00:38:40,510 --> 00:38:46,900 gonna help you don't think international 811 00:38:43,180 --> 00:38:49,210 community has anything to do has 812 00:38:46,900 --> 00:38:52,630 anything to do whether they have a piece 813 00:38:49,210 --> 00:38:55,690 or not if you have anything anymore 814 00:38:52,630 --> 00:38:57,670 get involved now don't let any people to 815 00:38:55,690 --> 00:39:00,040 take care of your country and if you 816 00:38:57,670 --> 00:39:03,460 don't do this you will end up like some 817 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:06,580 other and and and never let anybody 818 00:39:03,460 --> 00:39:09,700 never let anybody to interview a country 819 00:39:06,580 --> 00:39:12,970 like us we talked about Saudi Arabia we 820 00:39:09,700 --> 00:39:15,940 talked about Emirates unless you allow 821 00:39:12,970 --> 00:39:17,800 them to get involved they won't be able 822 00:39:15,940 --> 00:39:23,500 to come we don't we don't get involved 823 00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:25,330 in Saudia politics or or their life how 824 00:39:23,500 --> 00:39:27,430 could the yes let's take the lady behind 825 00:39:25,330 --> 00:39:29,860 you yes ma'am 826 00:39:27,430 --> 00:39:33,030 hello good afternoon my name is Sarah 827 00:39:29,860 --> 00:39:36,480 Sarah Muhammad lived in London so just 828 00:39:33,030 --> 00:39:39,400 very simplest with the Sudanese people I 829 00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:42,040 could feel the pain we went go through 830 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:45,270 I'm from Somalia originally so well I 831 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:47,380 was just trying to sighs the 832 00:39:45,270 --> 00:39:49,210 international don't expect the 833 00:39:47,380 --> 00:39:52,720 international to sort your problems 834 00:39:49,210 --> 00:39:56,140 first of all other thing is they have to 835 00:39:52,720 --> 00:39:58,870 think about it what kind of democracy do 836 00:39:56,140 --> 00:40:02,890 you want because when you say democracy 837 00:39:58,870 --> 00:40:06,520 and Western it's different the one in 838 00:40:02,890 --> 00:40:08,560 Africa actually so they could say 839 00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:10,420 something democracy and it will end up 840 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:13,330 something different they don't people 841 00:40:10,420 --> 00:40:19,270 don't wish that happens here to other 842 00:40:13,330 --> 00:40:22,840 thing is do they trust the different 843 00:40:19,270 --> 00:40:24,400 groups of opposition right now the 844 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:27,370 people of Sudan is dead 845 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:30,940 can they trust those people to come 846 00:40:27,370 --> 00:40:33,430 together and talk and find our way 847 00:40:30,940 --> 00:40:37,300 forward to build a civilian government 848 00:40:33,430 --> 00:40:40,420 that is the main question actually 849 00:40:37,300 --> 00:40:42,700 because now your position and yeah they 850 00:40:40,420 --> 00:40:44,260 want to do this and that when they won 851 00:40:42,700 --> 00:40:47,350 they come to the government it could be 852 00:40:44,260 --> 00:40:51,160 different and it could be outside 853 00:40:47,350 --> 00:40:54,480 players so can influence but they have 854 00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:56,500 to think and really can they do this 855 00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:59,020 gentlemen are right at the back 856 00:40:56,500 --> 00:41:01,300 hello mister gallery and thank you for 857 00:40:59,020 --> 00:41:02,560 having me my name is a man Osmond I'm 858 00:41:01,300 --> 00:41:05,640 medical doctor 859 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:08,650 I would like to disagree was two of the 860 00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:12,640 gentlemen here the gentleman in the 861 00:41:08,650 --> 00:41:14,470 front has said that the demonstrations 862 00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:17,560 started because of austerity measures 863 00:41:14,470 --> 00:41:21,100 and I would like to say this is may 864 00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:24,850 partly be true but the opposition to 865 00:41:21,100 --> 00:41:29,950 this government has been going since 866 00:41:24,850 --> 00:41:33,040 their military coup in June 1989 of 867 00:41:29,950 --> 00:41:38,140 people died including an arc I remember 868 00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:42,820 dr. holliford all from the Sudan doctors 869 00:41:38,140 --> 00:41:45,460 union and 28th of Ramadan where a lot of 870 00:41:42,820 --> 00:41:48,430 people and generals from the military 871 00:41:45,460 --> 00:41:51,370 died including shahida abdomen in Khmer 872 00:41:48,430 --> 00:41:53,170 is going on all the people who battled 873 00:41:51,370 --> 00:41:57,690 the previous government going through 874 00:41:53,170 --> 00:42:01,780 there for war and to demonstration is 875 00:41:57,690 --> 00:42:03,600 2013 so this been a battle and 876 00:42:01,780 --> 00:42:07,180 unfortunately the international 877 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:08,740 community again has failed us because 878 00:42:07,180 --> 00:42:11,440 they would only support in the previous 879 00:42:08,740 --> 00:42:14,650 government because they had interests in 880 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:17,380 that government I would like also to say 881 00:42:14,650 --> 00:42:19,480 to the gentleman there that yes we were 882 00:42:17,380 --> 00:42:24,760 an X colonies but I don't believe that 883 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:29,380 we are still controlled by big countries 884 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:32,710 like USA UK if we want to progress we 885 00:42:29,380 --> 00:42:34,930 can do that USA as you always like to 886 00:42:32,710 --> 00:42:36,790 say mister gallery that they don't have 887 00:42:34,930 --> 00:42:39,670 to control the crime rate in in 888 00:42:36,790 --> 00:42:42,280 Manhattan so if we are strong we will 889 00:42:39,670 --> 00:42:47,260 win yes there is a lot of pressure 890 00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:50,890 coming from UAE KSA and Egypt this is 891 00:42:47,260 --> 00:42:56,140 fighting by proxy for America and 892 00:42:50,890 --> 00:42:58,900 which were controlled by the Zionists so 893 00:42:56,140 --> 00:43:00,369 it is it is a big big game well you call 894 00:42:58,900 --> 00:43:03,339 it pressure but what you really mean is 895 00:43:00,369 --> 00:43:05,170 money money yes so because the United 896 00:43:03,339 --> 00:43:07,630 Arab Emirates has no power to give 897 00:43:05,170 --> 00:43:09,789 pressure they only have money to bribe 898 00:43:07,630 --> 00:43:12,369 people the gentleman at the front 899 00:43:09,789 --> 00:43:14,819 my name's Taryn basri pleased to quite 900 00:43:12,369 --> 00:43:17,589 twist and a member labour party 901 00:43:14,819 --> 00:43:21,010 listening to people's views here and 902 00:43:17,589 --> 00:43:21,510 stories is very evident what the answer 903 00:43:21,010 --> 00:43:26,410 is 904 00:43:21,510 --> 00:43:30,309 the people of themselves have to solve 905 00:43:26,410 --> 00:43:31,839 their problem however I'm not into 906 00:43:30,309 --> 00:43:34,750 conspiracy theories but it's quite 907 00:43:31,839 --> 00:43:36,940 evident that external powers since the 908 00:43:34,750 --> 00:43:39,700 fall of the Ottoman Empire we've had 909 00:43:36,940 --> 00:43:43,890 constant conflicts in North Africa Horn 910 00:43:39,700 --> 00:43:47,019 of Africa Middle East it's almost as if 911 00:43:43,890 --> 00:43:51,730 the outside powers are causing constant 912 00:43:47,019 --> 00:43:54,940 conflict there and I think that change 913 00:43:51,730 --> 00:43:58,720 will not come until change comes within 914 00:43:54,940 --> 00:44:02,349 the colonial countries the colonists to 915 00:43:58,720 --> 00:44:04,589 begin with we see it in Brazil where 916 00:44:02,349 --> 00:44:08,380 they can quite openly 917 00:44:04,589 --> 00:44:11,740 change your government will most most of 918 00:44:08,380 --> 00:44:15,220 the wealth of Africa is actually outside 919 00:44:11,740 --> 00:44:17,410 of Africa and that should be for the 920 00:44:15,220 --> 00:44:19,809 people of Africa Africa Africa is still 921 00:44:17,410 --> 00:44:24,130 colonized but it's done economically 922 00:44:19,809 --> 00:44:27,670 sure I must say I strongly disagree with 923 00:44:24,130 --> 00:44:30,059 that if you wait for change in the 924 00:44:27,670 --> 00:44:34,509 colonizing countries you'll wait for 925 00:44:30,059 --> 00:44:37,779 back to my scorpion analogy there will 926 00:44:34,509 --> 00:44:40,980 always be scorpions in the imperialist 927 00:44:37,779 --> 00:44:44,500 countries but it's within the power of 928 00:44:40,980 --> 00:44:46,750 the people of Africa to take control of 929 00:44:44,500 --> 00:44:48,910 their own destiny and there are 930 00:44:46,750 --> 00:44:51,190 countries in the world I'd give you one 931 00:44:48,910 --> 00:44:54,460 Cuba for example which rose and 932 00:44:51,190 --> 00:44:56,549 overthrew colonialism and has maintained 933 00:44:54,460 --> 00:45:00,980 its independence in the teeth of all 934 00:44:56,549 --> 00:45:02,990 efforts to destroy it for well over half 935 00:45:00,980 --> 00:45:06,350 but that was with the support of Russia 936 00:45:02,990 --> 00:45:09,980 yeah so answers you know Sudan people 937 00:45:06,350 --> 00:45:12,320 can look abroad for support but there 938 00:45:09,980 --> 00:45:15,710 when when the Soviet Union collapsed 939 00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:17,500 Cuba did not collapse because the Cuban 940 00:45:15,710 --> 00:45:20,780 people themselves had been 941 00:45:17,500 --> 00:45:23,030 revolutionized but you if you're going 942 00:45:20,780 --> 00:45:25,970 to call it a revolution it has to really 943 00:45:23,030 --> 00:45:29,390 be a revolution not just using these 944 00:45:25,970 --> 00:45:33,200 kind of words who hasn't spoken and 945 00:45:29,390 --> 00:45:36,770 wants to general at the end some some 946 00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:40,490 disagreement with that the the history 947 00:45:36,770 --> 00:45:42,560 of socialism really goes back to the to 948 00:45:40,490 --> 00:45:45,800 the the modern history social gospel 949 00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:48,140 goes back to the Russian Revolution and 950 00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:51,530 and the aspiration of the Russian 951 00:45:48,140 --> 00:45:54,580 Revolution was was a world revolution 952 00:45:51,530 --> 00:45:58,130 and the aspiration for world revolution 953 00:45:54,580 --> 00:46:00,490 really does mean that you can't kill the 954 00:45:58,130 --> 00:46:03,530 monster anywhere except at its head so 955 00:46:00,490 --> 00:46:06,830 it is the working class of the United 956 00:46:03,530 --> 00:46:10,100 States and Britain and France that that 957 00:46:06,830 --> 00:46:14,380 must do the task of defeating 958 00:46:10,100 --> 00:46:17,330 imperialism you can you can the single 959 00:46:14,380 --> 00:46:19,609 dominant global hegemonic imperialism is 960 00:46:17,330 --> 00:46:23,960 the United States of America it rules 961 00:46:19,609 --> 00:46:26,960 the entire world if it's army as bigger 962 00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:29,119 its Navy as bigger that is the enemy of 963 00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:33,470 all mankind that is the central enemy of 964 00:46:29,119 --> 00:46:36,920 all mark what he does in Africa it uses 965 00:46:33,470 --> 00:46:41,000 its proxies for instance South Sudan 966 00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:43,190 well quite quite why did they did the 967 00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:45,530 the conflict began and South Sudan it 968 00:46:43,190 --> 00:46:48,380 because South Sudan has the oil isn't it 969 00:46:45,530 --> 00:46:53,420 it's oil right the conflict is about oil 970 00:46:48,380 --> 00:46:55,910 and and you in Rwanda well what was the 971 00:46:53,420 --> 00:46:59,350 conflict about well now in Rwanda they 972 00:46:55,910 --> 00:47:01,940 speak English and no longer French a 973 00:46:59,350 --> 00:47:04,700 victory for the United States of America 974 00:47:01,940 --> 00:47:07,520 you would say the United States is 975 00:47:04,700 --> 00:47:09,619 moving into into Africa and it's moving 976 00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:11,960 into Africa and its funding it's it's 977 00:47:09,619 --> 00:47:14,900 it's its proxy forces 978 00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:17,359 go behind I'm Aaron Mossman I'm an 979 00:47:14,900 --> 00:47:19,490 a-level student and I'm also Sudanese I 980 00:47:17,359 --> 00:47:21,529 think I agree with most of the points 981 00:47:19,490 --> 00:47:23,420 that have been brought by other people 982 00:47:21,529 --> 00:47:27,230 in the sense that the Sudanese people 983 00:47:23,420 --> 00:47:29,569 need to be the ones that like provides 984 00:47:27,230 --> 00:47:31,640 the change it's not we can't rely on 985 00:47:29,569 --> 00:47:37,130 outside forces because they don't know 986 00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:40,130 what um they don't know what it's like 987 00:47:37,130 --> 00:47:41,900 to live in sedan and what we need we the 988 00:47:40,130 --> 00:47:44,630 culture and Suzanne is so much different 989 00:47:41,900 --> 00:47:46,849 and you can go anywhere anytime and sit 990 00:47:44,630 --> 00:47:48,140 down and ask anyone for anything that 991 00:47:46,849 --> 00:47:49,910 you need and they will give it to you 992 00:47:48,140 --> 00:47:51,890 straight away because they are kind and 993 00:47:49,910 --> 00:47:55,279 caring and I commend everyone in Sudan 994 00:47:51,890 --> 00:47:58,730 for keeping the protest peaceful despite 995 00:47:55,279 --> 00:48:00,170 violent action taken upon them but in 996 00:47:58,730 --> 00:48:04,339 regards to your question from earlier 997 00:48:00,170 --> 00:48:08,089 why do we have faith in the UN we still 998 00:48:04,339 --> 00:48:10,579 need support from outside outside forces 999 00:48:08,089 --> 00:48:12,349 to say what's going on is wrong we don't 1000 00:48:10,579 --> 00:48:14,869 need them to change it for us we just 1001 00:48:12,349 --> 00:48:19,279 need other people to condemn it I'm just 1002 00:48:14,869 --> 00:48:21,260 trying to stop any tendency towards 1003 00:48:19,279 --> 00:48:23,390 believing that that will happen and 1004 00:48:21,260 --> 00:48:25,400 you're right to demand it you have a 1005 00:48:23,390 --> 00:48:27,440 right to it without demanding it it 1006 00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:29,150 won't come regardless of whether it 1007 00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:31,190 comes or not you need to demand it 1008 00:48:29,150 --> 00:48:33,710 demanding it is fine and appeal to the 1009 00:48:31,190 --> 00:48:35,539 people I just I just make the point I'm 1010 00:48:33,710 --> 00:48:40,730 passed on before the last comment I'm 1011 00:48:35,539 --> 00:48:44,900 afraid the people of Iran overthrew the 1012 00:48:40,730 --> 00:48:47,690 mighty Shah and for 40 years have 1013 00:48:44,900 --> 00:48:50,630 maintained a revolutionary country in 1014 00:48:47,690 --> 00:48:53,359 control of its own affairs it is 1015 00:48:50,630 --> 00:48:55,430 possible to do it but you have to be 1016 00:48:53,359 --> 00:48:57,319 determined to do it and you have to be 1017 00:48:55,430 --> 00:48:59,839 smart enough to do it last speaker the 1018 00:48:57,319 --> 00:49:02,630 gentleman in the brown jacket go ahead 1019 00:48:59,839 --> 00:49:04,099 sir right so yes talking about this and 1020 00:49:02,630 --> 00:49:06,410 United Nations I think the starkest 1021 00:49:04,099 --> 00:49:07,910 example we have is Palestine how many 1022 00:49:06,410 --> 00:49:09,799 orders have been taken out nothing has 1023 00:49:07,910 --> 00:49:11,270 been implemented on the ground coming to 1024 00:49:09,799 --> 00:49:12,740 Sudan I think that there's an important 1025 00:49:11,270 --> 00:49:14,390 point I want to address is because we're 1026 00:49:12,740 --> 00:49:16,490 sitting here in a platform in a media in 1027 00:49:14,390 --> 00:49:18,020 a western media we're not on the ground 1028 00:49:16,490 --> 00:49:19,609 I need to talk about the topic on the 1029 00:49:18,020 --> 00:49:21,049 ground there is a real problem the 1030 00:49:19,609 --> 00:49:23,750 problem is if you want to walk out of 1031 00:49:21,049 --> 00:49:25,470 such a situation dire situation is there 1032 00:49:23,750 --> 00:49:27,840 needs to be a United 1033 00:49:25,470 --> 00:49:30,240 front leadership with a certain mindset 1034 00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:32,520 and that unfortunately is not available 1035 00:49:30,240 --> 00:49:34,320 and the problem we have is the heritage 1036 00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:35,849 of the Sudanese people for example there 1037 00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:38,760 are you know mostly at least talking 1038 00:49:35,849 --> 00:49:40,619 about the North's Arab Muslim etc now 1039 00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:41,970 the issue is this government 1040 00:49:40,619 --> 00:49:43,680 specifically which was in place the 1041 00:49:41,970 --> 00:49:44,970 previous one which is a military council 1042 00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:48,210 to return to preserve and has links to 1043 00:49:44,970 --> 00:49:49,740 is you know they called so Islamic sort 1044 00:49:48,210 --> 00:49:51,270 of government they call her which is the 1045 00:49:49,740 --> 00:49:53,280 heritage of that of the people of the 1046 00:49:51,270 --> 00:49:54,900 country and a lot of people got fooled 1047 00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:57,180 and they believed them and that was a 1048 00:49:54,900 --> 00:49:59,340 problem and they gave the worst example 1049 00:49:57,180 --> 00:50:01,619 ever about this great religion called 1050 00:49:59,340 --> 00:50:04,109 Islam I mean the same what we solve like 1051 00:50:01,619 --> 00:50:05,520 Isis example all of that and then is a 1052 00:50:04,109 --> 00:50:06,840 big issue that's why we now have a lot 1053 00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:09,270 of people is recording for let's have 1054 00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:10,500 complete secularism if you're if you've 1055 00:50:09,270 --> 00:50:11,910 got nothing to do Islam I don't want to 1056 00:50:10,500 --> 00:50:13,650 talk to you and there is communist 1057 00:50:11,910 --> 00:50:15,960 people as well and there is people from 1058 00:50:13,650 --> 00:50:17,400 you know siding by the military so you 1059 00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:18,810 have all these different factions how 1060 00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:20,910 are you gonna unite all those people and 1061 00:50:18,810 --> 00:50:23,220 have one and this is what I wanted to 1062 00:50:20,910 --> 00:50:24,750 point people's attention this is a trick 1063 00:50:23,220 --> 00:50:26,760 in the media which is this dilemma you 1064 00:50:24,750 --> 00:50:28,650 know they say George do you want tea or 1065 00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:30,210 coffee well I like chocolate isn't your 1066 00:50:28,650 --> 00:50:31,740 third option and then when they went to 1067 00:50:30,210 --> 00:50:33,270 you know when when Blair Bush wanted to 1068 00:50:31,740 --> 00:50:34,920 go to Iraq they would say do you want 1069 00:50:33,270 --> 00:50:36,270 Saddam stay on the stump or do you want 1070 00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:38,250 Americans to help you what isn't there a 1071 00:50:36,270 --> 00:50:40,170 third option why don't the people take 1072 00:50:38,250 --> 00:50:41,940 their own hands things into their own 1073 00:50:40,170 --> 00:50:44,250 hands so the same thing is being told 1074 00:50:41,940 --> 00:50:45,780 now in Sudan they're saying to them do 1075 00:50:44,250 --> 00:50:48,990 you want to remain with the hypocrite 1076 00:50:45,780 --> 00:50:50,970 Islamic you know you know party and the 1077 00:50:48,990 --> 00:50:52,710 military or do you want you know bless 1078 00:50:50,970 --> 00:50:54,720 get help from the outside well why is 1079 00:50:52,710 --> 00:50:56,520 these two only options there should be a 1080 00:50:54,720 --> 00:50:58,589 third option which is we need to go back 1081 00:50:56,520 --> 00:51:00,750 to our heritage and this heritage that 1082 00:50:58,589 --> 00:51:03,780 has been smeared which is what they call 1083 00:51:00,750 --> 00:51:05,520 Islamic and this and Isis a peep we as 1084 00:51:03,780 --> 00:51:07,589 Muslims deeply know it and we know what 1085 00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:09,990 our Prophet Mohammed did in names of 1086 00:51:07,589 --> 00:51:12,030 Islam of real justice we have a heritage 1087 00:51:09,990 --> 00:51:13,500 we have a complete system that can solve 1088 00:51:12,030 --> 00:51:15,210 our problems nothing to do with 1089 00:51:13,500 --> 00:51:16,580 hypocrites or injustice or anything and 1090 00:51:15,210 --> 00:51:20,099 that's what we need to go in search for 1091 00:51:16,580 --> 00:51:22,070 well done unfortunately because we could 1092 00:51:20,099 --> 00:51:25,520 have kept us going literally all night 1093 00:51:22,070 --> 00:51:28,710 but we've run out of time I'm going to 1094 00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:31,410 close the debate now and thank you all 1095 00:51:28,710 --> 00:51:33,869 for participating and this is an 1096 00:51:31,410 --> 00:51:36,300 argument that will run and run I've been 1097 00:51:33,869 --> 00:51:38,440 George Galloway this has been Callum 1098 00:51:36,300 --> 00:51:39,240 ahora on Al mayadeen 1099 00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:46,300 thank you 1100 00:51:39,240 --> 00:51:46,300 [Applause] 1101 00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:55,090 [Music] 1102 00:51:55,400 --> 00:52:03,989 [Applause] 1103 00:51:55,740 --> 00:52:03,989 [Music]