1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,540 a online and on DAV the mother of all 2 00:00:03,899 --> 00:00:09,059 talk shows with George Galloway on talk 3 00:00:06,540 --> 00:00:11,460 radio we'll get you talking listen up 4 00:00:09,059 --> 00:00:13,139 comrades of the World Unite he's a 5 00:00:11,460 --> 00:00:15,299 weapon of mass discussion and he's back 6 00:00:13,139 --> 00:00:17,400 on your radio get ready for a 7 00:00:15,299 --> 00:00:19,080 revolutionary rumble on your radio with 8 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:22,680 the original George of the political 9 00:00:19,080 --> 00:00:25,619 jungle Galway celebrate the mother of 10 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:27,599 all talk shows with George Galloway call 11 00:00:25,619 --> 00:00:30,480 me have a go if you think you're hard 12 00:00:27,599 --> 00:00:33,059 enough get it on the radio station that 13 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:35,520 gives power to the people talk radio 14 00:00:33,059 --> 00:00:38,219 we'll get you talking 15 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:40,800 is the mother of all talk shows it's the 16 00:00:38,219 --> 00:00:43,980 open University of the airwaves it's the 17 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:46,680 last free space in the mainstream media 18 00:00:43,980 --> 00:00:49,700 so make use of it I'm here tonight till 19 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:53,460 10 o'clock and then every day next week 20 00:00:49,700 --> 00:00:55,680 Mondays through Thursday 10 a.m to 1pm 21 00:00:53,460 --> 00:00:59,039 and then back again God willing next 22 00:00:55,680 --> 00:01:02,160 Friday night at 7 pm with the mother of 23 00:00:59,039 --> 00:01:04,199 all talk shows revolutionary radio with 24 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:06,479 citizen Galloway is unique wouldn't you 25 00:01:04,199 --> 00:01:10,020 say the mother of all talk shows with 26 00:01:06,479 --> 00:01:13,260 George Galloway radio I did not say that 27 00:01:10,020 --> 00:01:15,540 now in another Britain a better Britain 28 00:01:13,260 --> 00:01:18,960 and I pray that we reached there before 29 00:01:15,540 --> 00:01:22,439 he's too old my next guest would be a 30 00:01:18,960 --> 00:01:24,420 member of a senate or an up our house in 31 00:01:22,439 --> 00:01:27,180 the British Parliament he's the 32 00:01:24,420 --> 00:01:30,299 professor of children's literature he's 33 00:01:27,180 --> 00:01:33,119 every father mother grandfather and 34 00:01:30,299 --> 00:01:36,659 grandmother's favorite children's author 35 00:01:33,119 --> 00:01:39,240 I have myself a house full of his work 36 00:01:36,659 --> 00:01:41,579 he's Michael Rosen and he joins me now 37 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:44,640 Michael welcome to the show good evening 38 00:01:41,579 --> 00:01:48,540 George no we both know uh Jeremy corbyn 39 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:51,960 very well uh and we both know that he's 40 00:01:48,540 --> 00:01:55,140 not an effing anti-semite and he's not a 41 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:57,479 racist so why do you think Margaret 42 00:01:55,140 --> 00:02:00,659 Hodge Dame Margaret Hodge no less in 43 00:01:57,479 --> 00:02:02,759 Parliament in front of journalists 44 00:02:00,659 --> 00:02:05,340 shouted that in his face the other night 45 00:02:02,759 --> 00:02:08,039 well it is very peculiar she's known 46 00:02:05,340 --> 00:02:10,080 Jeremy for 40 years I should think at 47 00:02:08,039 --> 00:02:12,360 least and I don't think she's ever 48 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:15,020 leveled that allegation at him ever 49 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:17,879 before and if she really does think that 50 00:02:15,020 --> 00:02:19,739 then the way to do that would be to 51 00:02:17,879 --> 00:02:22,860 raise it through the instruments in the 52 00:02:19,739 --> 00:02:25,080 labor party or in private so that sort 53 00:02:22,860 --> 00:02:27,300 of strange what seems to have been like 54 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:28,560 a shouty thing but went on behind the 55 00:02:27,300 --> 00:02:30,780 speaker's chair in the House of Commons 56 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:32,879 it was obviously a a political 57 00:02:30,780 --> 00:02:34,500 demonstration on her part she wanted it 58 00:02:32,879 --> 00:02:37,200 to be noticed and she wanted the whole 59 00:02:34,500 --> 00:02:39,300 press to see it because we have a battle 60 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:42,060 royal on at the moment what is quite 61 00:02:39,300 --> 00:02:44,040 clear to me is that there are people in 62 00:02:42,060 --> 00:02:45,599 the labor party I'm not in the labor 63 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:47,879 party myself but uh the the 64 00:02:45,599 --> 00:02:51,480 Parliamentary labor party who would 65 00:02:47,879 --> 00:02:53,940 rather uh the labor party was split than 66 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:56,760 for Corbin to win and there is in their 67 00:02:53,940 --> 00:02:59,819 eyes a great danger in my eyes a great 68 00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:01,920 hope that corbyn might win an election 69 00:02:59,819 --> 00:03:03,300 if the tour worries go on eating each 70 00:03:01,920 --> 00:03:04,019 other which is what they're doing at the 71 00:03:03,300 --> 00:03:06,959 moment 72 00:03:04,019 --> 00:03:08,640 so having consumed each other over a 73 00:03:06,959 --> 00:03:10,620 period it's not quite possible the 74 00:03:08,640 --> 00:03:12,120 government would collapse and somebody 75 00:03:10,620 --> 00:03:14,519 would have to call an election perhaps 76 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:17,580 the queen who knows how it's done but uh 77 00:03:14,519 --> 00:03:19,680 and the great fear for the Margaret 78 00:03:17,580 --> 00:03:22,019 Hodge wing of the labor party or the 79 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:24,959 remnants of the uh the old Blair 80 00:03:22,019 --> 00:03:27,900 government and a few and the new one the 81 00:03:24,959 --> 00:03:30,180 new ones like chukaramuna and so on they 82 00:03:27,900 --> 00:03:31,980 they they're getting ready to split I 83 00:03:30,180 --> 00:03:35,760 mean I can tell you on very very good 84 00:03:31,980 --> 00:03:38,580 evidence that prior to uh Theresa May 85 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:40,560 calling that snap election uh Alistair 86 00:03:38,580 --> 00:03:42,360 Campbell was ringing up people in 87 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:44,220 television and others saying would you 88 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:46,860 like to be an MP in this new party I'm 89 00:03:44,220 --> 00:03:49,620 about to form yes I predicted that 90 00:03:46,860 --> 00:03:52,140 myself in my talk up uh in the beginning 91 00:03:49,620 --> 00:03:54,739 and we'll come back to that Michael 92 00:03:52,140 --> 00:03:57,659 um I think Margaret Hodge was in a sense 93 00:03:54,739 --> 00:03:59,519 she was raising a banner for this 94 00:03:57,659 --> 00:04:02,159 whatever you want to call it Thursday 95 00:03:59,519 --> 00:04:04,140 eighth Way New Way old way whatever it 96 00:04:02,159 --> 00:04:06,599 is and she was raising the standard for 97 00:04:04,140 --> 00:04:08,280 it and saying this is what we're doing 98 00:04:06,599 --> 00:04:10,739 and one of the ways we're going to do it 99 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:12,900 is to claim that somehow rather Corbin 100 00:04:10,739 --> 00:04:16,500 and the people around him are raving 101 00:04:12,900 --> 00:04:19,979 anti-semites I first thought it was late 102 00:04:16,500 --> 00:04:23,580 at night uh some of these MPS like a 103 00:04:19,979 --> 00:04:26,699 glass of champers or a bottle or two and 104 00:04:23,580 --> 00:04:29,699 that it was some kind of aberration uh 105 00:04:26,699 --> 00:04:35,880 some kind of regrettable incident that 106 00:04:29,699 --> 00:04:38,940 could be uh massaged uh past but she 107 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:43,440 then took to the guardian and said that 108 00:04:38,940 --> 00:04:46,220 she stood by her action and her words so 109 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:51,000 she does in the cold light of day 110 00:04:46,220 --> 00:04:52,500 regard Corbin in these vile terms and 111 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:55,080 that speaks to the point you've just 112 00:04:52,500 --> 00:04:57,300 made that this was a carefully 113 00:04:55,080 --> 00:05:00,000 considered at least carefully considered 114 00:04:57,300 --> 00:05:03,419 after the fact if not before I carefully 115 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:05,280 considered I call it a provocation oh 116 00:05:03,419 --> 00:05:07,380 yes no and more than that it's 117 00:05:05,280 --> 00:05:08,340 orchestrated in how she has presented 118 00:05:07,380 --> 00:05:10,740 herself 119 00:05:08,340 --> 00:05:12,300 so she presents herself quite rightly as 120 00:05:10,740 --> 00:05:14,340 many Jewish people of Jewish background 121 00:05:12,300 --> 00:05:17,820 present themselves at all times 122 00:05:14,340 --> 00:05:19,860 reminding everybody as we do me too that 123 00:05:17,820 --> 00:05:22,800 our relatives quite close relatives 124 00:05:19,860 --> 00:05:25,680 suffered Grievous Grievous harm during 125 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:27,300 the Holocaust now when you do that in an 126 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:29,820 argument when you accuse somebody of 127 00:05:27,300 --> 00:05:31,919 being an anti-semite you're in a sense 128 00:05:29,820 --> 00:05:34,020 sort of draw them into this whole 129 00:05:31,919 --> 00:05:36,960 terrible set of events that took place 130 00:05:34,020 --> 00:05:40,080 in Germany and Europe between 33 and 45 131 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:43,680 and you draw them into it and somehow by 132 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:45,660 by connotation by by attachment if you 133 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:48,060 like that somehow rather it's implicated 134 00:05:45,660 --> 00:05:49,680 that because they're you you first will 135 00:05:48,060 --> 00:05:51,900 claim they're anti-semites and somehow 136 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:53,940 they're joined to this terrible thing 137 00:05:51,900 --> 00:05:55,620 that happened so again and again when 138 00:05:53,940 --> 00:05:58,020 the when the story was presented in the 139 00:05:55,620 --> 00:06:00,660 news you heard that uh Margaret Hodge 140 00:05:58,020 --> 00:06:02,759 was the veteran MP who herself had 141 00:06:00,660 --> 00:06:05,039 suffered her family had suffered under 142 00:06:02,759 --> 00:06:07,440 the whole in the Holocaust now is this 143 00:06:05,039 --> 00:06:10,039 the same Margaret Hodge say for example 144 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:13,080 that the editor of the Jewish Chronicle 145 00:06:10,039 --> 00:06:15,120 described in the Daily Express in 2015 146 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:17,580 as by saying she drags the entire 147 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:19,259 political system into disrepute she 148 00:06:17,580 --> 00:06:21,840 would now be well advised to withdraw 149 00:06:19,259 --> 00:06:25,080 from public life that wherever she is 150 00:06:21,840 --> 00:06:26,819 she she uh she shows her sheer grub in 151 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:28,440 us she's so suffused with her own 152 00:06:26,819 --> 00:06:30,240 righteousness that she thinks she is 153 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:33,180 above the standard she would impose on 154 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:35,639 mere mortals she shows jaw-dropping 155 00:06:33,180 --> 00:06:37,979 hypocrisy she's too fat it's on and 156 00:06:35,639 --> 00:06:39,660 prior to it is indeed the same and it's 157 00:06:37,979 --> 00:06:42,000 the same Margaret Hodge that Stuart 158 00:06:39,660 --> 00:06:45,900 Stevens took a whole page in the evening 159 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:49,440 standard to denounce sin in in similar 160 00:06:45,900 --> 00:06:51,300 terms but the media tune has changed 161 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:53,400 doesn't it well we're supposed to forget 162 00:06:51,300 --> 00:06:55,199 George the point is we're supposed to 163 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:57,720 have one week memories 164 00:06:55,199 --> 00:06:59,340 so you know the fact that this woman who 165 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:01,020 at one time have you remember way back 166 00:06:59,340 --> 00:07:03,120 when she was described as an Islington 167 00:07:01,020 --> 00:07:04,800 Lobby and that somehow rather was all 168 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:07,199 part of the loony left then there was 169 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:08,819 this uh other phase in her life where 170 00:07:07,199 --> 00:07:11,039 she was you know which she herself 171 00:07:08,819 --> 00:07:13,620 described she managed with uh shameful 172 00:07:11,039 --> 00:07:15,539 naivety we won't go into it just now in 173 00:07:13,620 --> 00:07:16,919 case we stepped on some toes but then 174 00:07:15,539 --> 00:07:18,599 there was another whole issue of when 175 00:07:16,919 --> 00:07:20,340 she appeared to be behaving very well in 176 00:07:18,599 --> 00:07:21,960 the uh standards Committee in the 177 00:07:20,340 --> 00:07:23,940 auditing committee but it then turned 178 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:25,560 out that in actual fact she was guilty 179 00:07:23,940 --> 00:07:27,180 of the very things that she was accusing 180 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:29,400 others of yes so there's been several 181 00:07:27,180 --> 00:07:30,960 phases in the life of Margaret Hodge but 182 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,039 we're supposed to forget them and we're 183 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:33,479 supposed to forget that we're only 184 00:07:32,039 --> 00:07:35,340 supposed to have a week in the life of 185 00:07:33,479 --> 00:07:38,220 anybody so she's moved from this kind of 186 00:07:35,340 --> 00:07:40,199 loving us into a kind of Jewish Joan of 187 00:07:38,220 --> 00:07:43,319 Arc that would somehow rather she is 188 00:07:40,199 --> 00:07:45,599 this sort of poor martyred figure and 189 00:07:43,319 --> 00:07:49,500 therefore again gives validity to this 190 00:07:45,599 --> 00:07:51,960 outrageous just sheer shouty match uh 191 00:07:49,500 --> 00:07:54,060 behind the speakers chair all right and 192 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:57,060 then that then then he somehow evidence 193 00:07:54,060 --> 00:07:58,740 because of Holocaust but the Holocaust 194 00:07:57,060 --> 00:08:00,960 background that many of us have me 195 00:07:58,740 --> 00:08:02,759 included the that is somehow evidence 196 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:05,099 that she must be right the same woman 197 00:08:02,759 --> 00:08:07,199 who as I say the editor of the Jewish 198 00:08:05,099 --> 00:08:09,240 Chronicle could describe us as as 199 00:08:07,199 --> 00:08:10,740 totally hypocritical and be well advised 200 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,180 to withdraw from public life well she 201 00:08:10,740 --> 00:08:13,919 hasn't withdrawn from public life oh on 202 00:08:12,180 --> 00:08:16,620 the contrary she's right now bang Center 203 00:08:13,919 --> 00:08:20,699 uh to it now I think you pointed out on 204 00:08:16,620 --> 00:08:24,539 Twitter uh that uh that people who are 205 00:08:20,699 --> 00:08:26,879 related to Holocaust victims in some 206 00:08:24,539 --> 00:08:30,120 cases children grandchildren close 207 00:08:26,879 --> 00:08:33,360 relatives murdered by fascism uh 208 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:36,000 throughout Europe in the 33 to 45 period 209 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:39,180 are only really allowed to bring that up 210 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:41,880 if they hate Jeremy corbyn if they are 211 00:08:39,180 --> 00:08:45,000 people as many are who actually like 212 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:47,580 Jeremy corbyn like you who have a 213 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:50,399 similar background uh they're not 214 00:08:47,580 --> 00:08:54,060 allowed they're never given that uh 215 00:08:50,399 --> 00:08:56,760 credibility uh speaking as these are the 216 00:08:54,060 --> 00:08:59,339 relatives of survive diverse of the 217 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:02,839 Holocaust it 218 00:08:59,339 --> 00:09:02,839 it's those those of us 219 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:06,500 and when we say that 220 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:12,600 really uh who suffered the Holocaust 221 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:14,519 supports Jeremy corbyn that's like that 222 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:17,519 sounds like very odd doesn't it to our 223 00:09:14,519 --> 00:09:19,200 ears but it's it's never been hurt it's 224 00:09:17,519 --> 00:09:21,360 it's not it's not heard so the way it's 225 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:23,760 heard is that when you accuse Jeremy 226 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:25,740 corbyn of that it gives Credence to what 227 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:28,140 you're saying somehow rather she is a 228 00:09:25,740 --> 00:09:31,459 more credible witness right this is this 229 00:09:28,140 --> 00:09:34,740 is what's being claimed yes yes 230 00:09:31,459 --> 00:09:37,920 leptin to print uh to make that very 231 00:09:34,740 --> 00:09:40,200 point in in her defense I may say I 232 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:43,200 should say that even Blair doesn't say 233 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:45,660 that Corbin is an anti-semite and a 234 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:47,640 racist uh on news night last night as he 235 00:09:45,660 --> 00:09:49,620 was predictably he stepped he stepped 236 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:51,360 aside from that one I mean he's also 237 00:09:49,620 --> 00:09:53,580 outside of parliament so of course the 238 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:55,620 people are scooting around various 239 00:09:53,580 --> 00:09:58,380 issues around libel and defamation yes 240 00:09:55,620 --> 00:10:00,899 yes so he was being very very careful 241 00:09:58,380 --> 00:10:03,120 now you also I think it was you uh it 242 00:10:00,899 --> 00:10:06,000 was good enough to be you uh made the 243 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:08,720 point uh earlier today that when Corbin 244 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:11,480 is behind in the opinion he's a loser 245 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:15,360 when he's ahead in the opinion polls 246 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:17,160 he's an anti-semite and a racist well 247 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,959 he's moved miraculously from being the 248 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:21,959 incompetent geography teacher to some 249 00:10:18,959 --> 00:10:24,000 kind of Nazi warlord so it is just like 250 00:10:21,959 --> 00:10:25,980 extraordinary the kind of transformation 251 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,720 because again this is remarkable 252 00:10:25,980 --> 00:10:30,120 especially as we know him so well 253 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:32,519 creating these constructs is creating 254 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:34,860 like a sort of Lego Factory around 255 00:10:32,519 --> 00:10:36,300 somebody a sort of Lego castle where you 256 00:10:34,860 --> 00:10:37,860 say one minute they're one thing and 257 00:10:36,300 --> 00:10:39,660 then you hope that people have forgotten 258 00:10:37,860 --> 00:10:41,579 that you were laughing at the fact that 259 00:10:39,660 --> 00:10:43,380 he had a jacket that was like a bit worn 260 00:10:41,579 --> 00:10:45,480 at the edges and that now you're 261 00:10:43,380 --> 00:10:48,140 claiming that he's sort of running some 262 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:50,399 sort of Nazi Clique yeah so they kind of 263 00:10:48,140 --> 00:10:52,800 flip-flop like that and somehow rather 264 00:10:50,399 --> 00:10:56,339 we out there we're supposed to believe 265 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:58,980 these kind of manufactured uh stuff you 266 00:10:56,339 --> 00:11:00,600 know well we'll see uh I suppose in in 267 00:10:58,980 --> 00:11:02,820 the next polls they're certainly trying 268 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:04,560 hard enough let me move on Mike if I can 269 00:11:02,820 --> 00:11:06,959 to 270 00:11:04,560 --> 00:11:09,000 um what comes next because I agree with 271 00:11:06,959 --> 00:11:11,700 you and did I said so at the beginning 272 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:13,440 of the show uh that there's no way back 273 00:11:11,700 --> 00:11:17,160 from this really if you see the front 274 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:21,000 page of the Jewish Chronicle today uh 275 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:23,040 and you survey the last uh 40 hours of 276 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:25,440 coverage it doesn't seem to me there's 277 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:28,980 any way back from this Corbin cannot 278 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:31,560 allow this to stand and Blair made it 279 00:11:28,980 --> 00:11:34,860 clear enough as have many others like 280 00:11:31,560 --> 00:11:38,579 Chuka that if any action is taken 281 00:11:34,860 --> 00:11:41,040 against the tower jar uh that uh that 282 00:11:38,579 --> 00:11:44,700 there will be severe consequences inside 283 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:48,899 the labor party so I do think that this 284 00:11:44,700 --> 00:11:51,660 is the cause celebra around which this 285 00:11:48,899 --> 00:11:53,820 new political force is going to be born 286 00:11:51,660 --> 00:11:55,740 now although neither of us looks it we 287 00:11:53,820 --> 00:12:02,100 were both around when this happened 288 00:11:55,740 --> 00:12:04,560 before and the sdp was formed do you 289 00:12:02,100 --> 00:12:07,260 think it'll be the same kind of thing 290 00:12:04,560 --> 00:12:09,480 people breaking away sitting as perhaps 291 00:12:07,260 --> 00:12:11,700 is an independent group or do you think 292 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:14,940 Alistar Campbell's got a name and a HQ 293 00:12:11,700 --> 00:12:19,500 and a bank of telephones ready for 294 00:12:14,940 --> 00:12:21,060 something actual concrete and new well 295 00:12:19,500 --> 00:12:22,920 we've got two or three things all going 296 00:12:21,060 --> 00:12:25,079 on at the same time that confuses us so 297 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:27,660 I guess and I'm as confused as anybody 298 00:12:25,079 --> 00:12:29,880 else so we have the whole obviously the 299 00:12:27,660 --> 00:12:32,100 brexit Remain the soft brexit the hard 300 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:34,079 breakfast the breakfast the the cold 301 00:12:32,100 --> 00:12:36,660 breakfast of the cold brexit we've got 302 00:12:34,079 --> 00:12:39,180 all that going on with many fracturings 303 00:12:36,660 --> 00:12:42,240 on all sides with the government propped 304 00:12:39,180 --> 00:12:44,399 up by a group of people whose views that 305 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:46,320 if people just knew you know we're not 306 00:12:44,399 --> 00:12:47,760 just talking about creationists you know 307 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:50,220 we're talking about people who are 308 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:52,440 bigots we're talking about people I'm 309 00:12:50,220 --> 00:12:54,600 talking about the dup now we're talking 310 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:56,880 about a form of anti-Semitism that goes 311 00:12:54,600 --> 00:13:00,000 utterly unremarked namely two or three 312 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:01,980 of their dup members are a form of 313 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:04,500 believe in a form of Christian Zionism 314 00:13:01,980 --> 00:13:06,000 where all Jews in other words the Jews 315 00:13:04,500 --> 00:13:07,680 which is often regarded as a very 316 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,899 prejudicial way of talking 317 00:13:07,680 --> 00:13:12,240 should all move to Israel where we'll be 318 00:13:09,899 --> 00:13:13,740 converted to Christianity or put to the 319 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:15,839 sword in order that the second coming 320 00:13:13,740 --> 00:13:17,639 might happen now we can laugh at that 321 00:13:15,839 --> 00:13:19,800 and say well this is just the fantasy of 322 00:13:17,639 --> 00:13:22,800 some fundamentalists this is the same 323 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:25,260 lot of people who who prop up Trump in 324 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:27,600 America with massive amounts of money 325 00:13:25,260 --> 00:13:29,940 and support and voting in the key States 326 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:33,180 and it's same thing is going on in this 327 00:13:29,940 --> 00:13:36,440 country propping up uh Theresa May's 328 00:13:33,180 --> 00:13:38,459 government and indeed turning up at the 329 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:40,199 anti-anti-semitic rallies alleged 330 00:13:38,459 --> 00:13:42,420 anti-Semitism rally enough is enough 331 00:13:40,199 --> 00:13:44,880 there they were two of these dup guys 332 00:13:42,420 --> 00:13:46,740 and these are the people propping up the 333 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:48,779 government at this very moment it's 334 00:13:46,740 --> 00:13:51,420 teetering on the balance that form of 335 00:13:48,779 --> 00:13:54,000 anti-Semitism never mentioned and 336 00:13:51,420 --> 00:13:55,440 meanwhile Stephen Pollard editor of the 337 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:58,199 Jewish Chronicle is calling on the 338 00:13:55,440 --> 00:14:00,120 Jewish MPS to leave to create a new 339 00:13:58,199 --> 00:14:01,560 party I don't know whether he is in all 340 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:03,779 seriousness meaning that they should 341 00:14:01,560 --> 00:14:05,940 have a vote Jewish party or I don't know 342 00:14:03,779 --> 00:14:08,699 but it seems like bizarre but he's 343 00:14:05,940 --> 00:14:11,339 inviting the Jewish members of 344 00:14:08,699 --> 00:14:14,279 parliament I think there are about 10 345 00:14:11,339 --> 00:14:16,320 um to leave and meanwhile chukka who's 346 00:14:14,279 --> 00:14:18,779 made a play for the last two years to be 347 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:20,459 the leader of this group you know every 348 00:14:18,779 --> 00:14:23,279 statement that I ever see him make it's 349 00:14:20,459 --> 00:14:26,699 always done with the kind of ultimatums 350 00:14:23,279 --> 00:14:28,320 and the sort of when the pre it's like a 351 00:14:26,699 --> 00:14:30,959 kind of foreplay isn't it it's a kind of 352 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:33,540 leadership foreplay that goes on of the 353 00:14:30,959 --> 00:14:35,339 of the sort of positioning and meanwhile 354 00:14:33,540 --> 00:14:36,600 behind the scenes Campbell and Blair are 355 00:14:35,339 --> 00:14:38,519 alive and well I mean you know we 356 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:40,260 watched 20 minutes of a Blair interview 357 00:14:38,519 --> 00:14:41,699 on Newsnight last night I mean it was 358 00:14:40,260 --> 00:14:43,680 like a sort of laying on of hands 359 00:14:41,699 --> 00:14:45,360 virtually you did yes now what I can 360 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:47,519 tell you I have a feeling sorry sorry 361 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:49,800 George I have a feeling quite genuinely 362 00:14:47,519 --> 00:14:53,100 that they're they will take an 363 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:54,779 opportunity like this to to walk out in 364 00:14:53,100 --> 00:14:57,180 some form or another and whatever 365 00:14:54,779 --> 00:14:59,940 parliamentary system they'll use 366 00:14:57,180 --> 00:15:02,100 renouncing the whip I mean after all uh 367 00:14:59,940 --> 00:15:04,980 Woodcock John Woodcock has already gone 368 00:15:02,100 --> 00:15:07,019 yeah without resigning so he's in a 369 00:15:04,980 --> 00:15:09,480 sense utter contempt of his constituents 370 00:15:07,019 --> 00:15:11,399 and just said I'm resigning why do his 371 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:12,899 constituents do his parliamentary labor 372 00:15:11,399 --> 00:15:14,880 party think that was a good idea he 373 00:15:12,899 --> 00:15:16,500 didn't say he just went 374 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:18,420 um and this is the man who does what is 375 00:15:16,500 --> 00:15:21,540 regularly called by Jewish people go 376 00:15:18,420 --> 00:15:23,459 explaining where the guy is a word 377 00:15:21,540 --> 00:15:25,440 meaning non-jewish and you do instead of 378 00:15:23,459 --> 00:15:26,940 mansplaining they do voice planing stand 379 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:28,680 in front of Jews and tell them what's 380 00:15:26,940 --> 00:15:31,320 wrong with them yes what they should be 381 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:33,480 doing so does a lot of that well and and 382 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:36,000 indeed they declare some people to be 383 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:38,579 good Jews and some bad let me tell you 384 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:41,300 oh indeed I I'm I'm I'm one of the bad 385 00:15:38,579 --> 00:15:43,800 ones so it's a form of anti-Semitism 386 00:15:41,300 --> 00:15:46,320 well look I've got breaking news for you 387 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:49,920 because it's just dropped uh an 388 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:52,199 emergency emotion has been tabled to 389 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:54,180 amend the standing orders of the 390 00:15:52,199 --> 00:15:57,540 Parliamentary labor party the emergency 391 00:15:54,180 --> 00:16:01,199 motion stands in the name of Louisa man 392 00:15:57,540 --> 00:16:03,000 and Ruth Smith and it is that the 393 00:16:01,199 --> 00:16:05,699 Parliamentary labor party standing 394 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:07,339 orders be amended as follows with 395 00:16:05,699 --> 00:16:10,199 immediate effect 396 00:16:07,339 --> 00:16:12,839 that the Parliamentary labor party 397 00:16:10,199 --> 00:16:15,300 accepts and abides by the full 398 00:16:12,839 --> 00:16:17,459 International Holocaust remembrance 399 00:16:15,300 --> 00:16:20,699 Alliance working definition of 400 00:16:17,459 --> 00:16:23,820 anti-semitism including all of its 401 00:16:20,699 --> 00:16:27,060 accompanying examples now this has been 402 00:16:23,820 --> 00:16:30,660 tabled if the Parliamentary labor party 403 00:16:27,060 --> 00:16:33,240 passes it a constitutional crisis will 404 00:16:30,660 --> 00:16:36,920 then exist between the national 405 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:40,500 executive of the party and the PLP 406 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:43,259 because it's their contention that 407 00:16:40,500 --> 00:16:45,779 whatever are the standing orders of the 408 00:16:43,259 --> 00:16:48,240 Parliamentary labor party must and 409 00:16:45,779 --> 00:16:51,540 they've accentuated the word must be 410 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:54,000 endorsed by the NEC I myself have a 411 00:16:51,540 --> 00:16:57,600 different definition of the word must 412 00:16:54,000 --> 00:17:01,139 there uh I would I would argue that that 413 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:03,899 word in that context means that those 414 00:17:01,139 --> 00:17:07,199 new standing orders could not be in 415 00:17:03,899 --> 00:17:09,480 effect unless they had the endorsement 416 00:17:07,199 --> 00:17:13,860 of the national executive committee but 417 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:15,600 that may be the end of a needle uh 418 00:17:13,860 --> 00:17:19,679 around which there'll be a bit of 419 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:22,380 dancing and a final Severance maybe but 420 00:17:19,679 --> 00:17:24,299 I mean you know that's talking of 421 00:17:22,380 --> 00:17:27,299 dancing on needles or dancing on pins or 422 00:17:24,299 --> 00:17:29,640 whatever I mean this whole thing this 423 00:17:27,299 --> 00:17:31,820 this definition of anti-semitism you 424 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:34,980 know it's a great cumbersome document 425 00:17:31,820 --> 00:17:37,559 and I've I've read an article today in 426 00:17:34,980 --> 00:17:41,520 the guardian by Brian klugo a philosophy 427 00:17:37,559 --> 00:17:44,039 uh a professor and indeed Jewish himself 428 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:46,700 who says that the reason why the the the 429 00:17:44,039 --> 00:17:49,020 the way that it's been 430 00:17:46,700 --> 00:17:51,059 phrased by the way the labor party has 431 00:17:49,020 --> 00:17:52,620 phrased it is a good way of doing it and 432 00:17:51,059 --> 00:17:55,080 there's the people have argued about it 433 00:17:52,620 --> 00:17:57,419 they've changed some some of the words 434 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:59,880 and there's four that the labor power 435 00:17:57,419 --> 00:18:02,700 four Clauses for examples that the labor 436 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:04,500 party have taken out the problem is with 437 00:18:02,700 --> 00:18:06,780 the whole thing I mean it's a shame in a 438 00:18:04,500 --> 00:18:08,340 way I think that the corbinites of the 439 00:18:06,780 --> 00:18:10,520 corbinistas have allowed themselves to 440 00:18:08,340 --> 00:18:14,220 be hung out to dry on this thing because 441 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:16,440 they're trying to draw into the idea of 442 00:18:14,220 --> 00:18:18,059 anti-Semitism the basic principle of 443 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:21,000 anti-Semitism when people are arguing 444 00:18:18,059 --> 00:18:23,220 about it is do you dislike are you 445 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:26,240 hostile to do you hate Jews because 446 00:18:23,220 --> 00:18:29,280 they're Jews that's the that's the solid 447 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:30,559 core of what anti-Semitism is and that 448 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:33,840 is a form of 449 00:18:30,559 --> 00:18:35,940 prejudice prejudicial speech and writing 450 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:38,280 but there is also discrimination and 451 00:18:35,940 --> 00:18:40,559 what makes me Fed Up is the fact that we 452 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:42,960 so easy really slide between these two 453 00:18:40,559 --> 00:18:44,460 things so there we have the Windrush 454 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:48,900 Scandal here is an example of 455 00:18:44,460 --> 00:18:52,740 discrimination people's lives ruined and 456 00:18:48,900 --> 00:18:54,780 wrecked by racist legislation and racist 457 00:18:52,740 --> 00:18:56,940 activity by the immigration authorities 458 00:18:54,780 --> 00:18:59,220 which have fundamentally affected 459 00:18:56,940 --> 00:19:00,900 people's lives livelihoods state of 460 00:18:59,220 --> 00:19:03,360 mental health and indeed in some 461 00:19:00,900 --> 00:19:06,179 occasions probably driven to early death 462 00:19:03,360 --> 00:19:08,820 that's discrimination and then we have 463 00:19:06,179 --> 00:19:11,100 Prejudice where we say foul things I say 464 00:19:08,820 --> 00:19:13,860 to you George you are foul and horrible 465 00:19:11,100 --> 00:19:16,919 because you are Scots that is Prejudice 466 00:19:13,860 --> 00:19:20,340 yes yes that's Prejudice now of course 467 00:19:16,919 --> 00:19:24,000 that is revolting and horrible but this 468 00:19:20,340 --> 00:19:27,120 this whole code that has come in it is 469 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:29,280 not only Prejudice about you as a Jew 470 00:19:27,120 --> 00:19:31,080 because and we know all the old tropes 471 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:33,900 about what Jews are or supposedly are 472 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:34,980 it's about what you say about a foreign 473 00:19:33,900 --> 00:19:36,840 power 474 00:19:34,980 --> 00:19:38,460 and this foreign power obviously we 475 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:41,220 don't have to mince words is the state 476 00:19:38,460 --> 00:19:43,200 of Israel so suddenly we now have an 477 00:19:41,220 --> 00:19:45,059 extraordinary code of practice where if 478 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:48,120 you say something horrible about a 479 00:19:45,059 --> 00:19:50,520 foreign State you are therefore being 480 00:19:48,120 --> 00:19:53,220 prejudicial to Jews you are being 481 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:55,380 anti-semitic this couldn't hold up in 482 00:19:53,220 --> 00:19:57,840 the court of law anywhere if I said 483 00:19:55,380 --> 00:20:00,179 something horrible about Iceland or I 484 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:02,760 say something horrible about America or 485 00:20:00,179 --> 00:20:04,860 Canada or you name the country you know 486 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:07,080 so long as I'm not actually provoking a 487 00:20:04,860 --> 00:20:08,460 hate crime but I'm just saying let's 488 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:10,799 imagine the place is called okay it's 489 00:20:08,460 --> 00:20:12,480 we'll retain you and I say oh ruritania 490 00:20:10,799 --> 00:20:14,880 it's terrible they do awful things to 491 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:17,039 people in ruritania and then that's not 492 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:18,780 going to stand up in a court of law so 493 00:20:17,039 --> 00:20:22,500 we have a code of practice that only 494 00:20:18,780 --> 00:20:24,000 works inside institutions about barring 495 00:20:22,500 --> 00:20:26,760 people as to whether they can belong or 496 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:28,260 not well fine institutions need codes of 497 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:30,900 practice but the idea that it should 498 00:20:28,260 --> 00:20:34,080 depend on what you say about a foreign 499 00:20:30,900 --> 00:20:36,539 power and irony of ironies this week 500 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:38,460 that foreign power has passed 501 00:20:36,539 --> 00:20:42,659 legislation that is discriminatory 502 00:20:38,460 --> 00:20:44,460 against 1.8 million of its own the 503 00:20:42,659 --> 00:20:46,320 people his own citizens it's past 504 00:20:44,460 --> 00:20:47,100 legislation I mean you couldn't make it 505 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:49,320 up 506 00:20:47,100 --> 00:20:50,880 you know that in the very week that this 507 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:52,380 happens we're debating whether you 508 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,360 should say something nasty or not about 509 00:20:52,380 --> 00:20:56,220 this country I mean in fact there are 510 00:20:54,360 --> 00:20:58,620 people in the state of Israel at the 511 00:20:56,220 --> 00:21:01,080 moment liberal zionists saying stuff 512 00:20:58,620 --> 00:21:03,720 about Israel that if you said it here 513 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:06,720 now inside the labor party you get 514 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:09,539 chucked out exactly so uh the harrettes 515 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:11,700 uh leader writers would be would be 516 00:21:09,539 --> 00:21:13,559 witch-hunted out of the labor party for 517 00:21:11,700 --> 00:21:14,760 what they're writing every day yeah 518 00:21:13,559 --> 00:21:16,620 there's an article in the Washington 519 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:18,900 Post this week by a guy who describes 520 00:21:16,620 --> 00:21:20,820 himself as an Israeli American who's 521 00:21:18,900 --> 00:21:22,559 obviously a liberal Zionist who is 522 00:21:20,820 --> 00:21:24,299 absolutely appalled with the state of 523 00:21:22,559 --> 00:21:27,000 Israel he can hardly hold himself back 524 00:21:24,299 --> 00:21:28,559 from saying stuff about Netanyahu and 525 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,299 about the state of Israel and the fact 526 00:21:28,559 --> 00:21:31,980 that you know the way it discredits 527 00:21:30,299 --> 00:21:35,760 Israel and the way it draws it you know 528 00:21:31,980 --> 00:21:37,919 drawing into his his his if you like his 529 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:40,020 attack on on the state of Israel he's 530 00:21:37,919 --> 00:21:42,240 not using classic anti-semitic tropes of 531 00:21:40,020 --> 00:21:43,860 course not but at the same time he's 532 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,720 describing his own way people said well 533 00:21:43,860 --> 00:21:47,039 that sounds like singling out Israel 534 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:49,799 remember this is one of the things that 535 00:21:47,039 --> 00:21:51,840 one of the examples yeah so in fact even 536 00:21:49,799 --> 00:21:53,700 now right imagine if I was in the labor 537 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,840 party I've singled out Israel so I 538 00:21:53,700 --> 00:21:57,419 better stop now and I better talk about 539 00:21:54,840 --> 00:22:00,419 ruritania America Britain 540 00:21:57,419 --> 00:22:02,340 um and uh Egypt even though we do all 541 00:22:00,419 --> 00:22:05,220 the time in any case so that I'm not 542 00:22:02,340 --> 00:22:08,520 singling it out and in any case we don't 543 00:22:05,220 --> 00:22:11,100 single it out we attack Saudi Arabia on 544 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:13,500 an hourly basis indeed what has Jeremy 545 00:22:11,100 --> 00:22:15,659 said unlike almost any other politician 546 00:22:13,500 --> 00:22:18,059 in the last 20 years has said in his 547 00:22:15,659 --> 00:22:19,980 position that we can no longer go on 548 00:22:18,059 --> 00:22:22,020 selling arms to Saudi Arabia wimps 549 00:22:19,980 --> 00:22:23,640 reaching a new arrangement with Saudi 550 00:22:22,020 --> 00:22:26,159 Arabia it cannot go on doing this 551 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:28,679 because Saudi Arabia is engaged in a war 552 00:22:26,159 --> 00:22:31,799 and by proxy we're involved in that war 553 00:22:28,679 --> 00:22:34,140 as well but also you know we've we 554 00:22:31,799 --> 00:22:37,020 in a sense indirectly been involved in 555 00:22:34,140 --> 00:22:39,000 some of the lines of of terrorism that 556 00:22:37,020 --> 00:22:41,340 have originated in Saudi Arabia that 557 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:43,200 we've been proxy in that as well and 558 00:22:41,340 --> 00:22:45,299 this is an appalling relationship to be 559 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:47,460 in a Jeremy corbyn has actually stood up 560 00:22:45,299 --> 00:22:49,740 about that whereas you know bar one or 561 00:22:47,460 --> 00:22:51,120 two back benches to their credit on both 562 00:22:49,740 --> 00:22:52,500 sides of the house who've said it and 563 00:22:51,120 --> 00:22:55,020 Jeremy when he was in fact a bank 564 00:22:52,500 --> 00:22:57,240 Venture but front bench is absolutely 565 00:22:55,020 --> 00:22:58,740 consistently considered absolutely 566 00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,900 consistently have backed the 567 00:22:58,740 --> 00:23:03,240 relationship between the UK and Saudi 568 00:23:00,900 --> 00:23:05,280 Arabia so we say singling out Israel 569 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,780 well you know the Saudis probably think 570 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:09,059 that you know Jeremy corbyn is singled 571 00:23:06,780 --> 00:23:11,700 out Saudi Arabia exactly Professor 572 00:23:09,059 --> 00:23:14,760 Michael Rosen thanks for joining us on 573 00:23:11,700 --> 00:23:18,559 the mother of all talk shows talk radio 574 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,559 join the talk Nation