1 00:00:00,150 --> 00:00:05,879 [Music] 2 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:23,890 [Music] 3 00:00:28,199 --> 00:00:31,960 see George G 4 00:00:37,559 --> 00:00:48,719 elpen and he has been he has been very 5 00:00:41,399 --> 00:00:48,719 critical critical there towards MQM so 6 00:00:59,620 --> 00:01:02,710 [Music] 7 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:15,560 n made it or George G election 8 00:01:17,439 --> 00:01:26,600 har towards the Muslim Community in UK 9 00:01:21,479 --> 00:01:26,600 especially Redford West or 10 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,810 [Music] 11 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:56,840 so let's talk to George 12 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:05,280 G what exactly is going on 13 00:02:00,759 --> 00:02:07,759 in Bradford West especially 14 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:10,480 election George how are 15 00:02:07,759 --> 00:02:12,599 you well uh considering the 16 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:14,599 circumstances by the grace of God I'm 17 00:02:12,599 --> 00:02:17,800 good thank you very much the sun is 18 00:02:14,599 --> 00:02:21,800 shining I'm back in London surrounded by 19 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:24,000 my many children mashallah and uh 20 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:27,040 feeling a little bit better than I did 21 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:28,680 yesterday and the day before so you have 22 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:31,160 like lots of children in London they 23 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:33,440 putting up in London not in 24 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:35,879 Bradford uh well of course I lived in 25 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:39,599 both places uh in London during the week 26 00:02:35,879 --> 00:02:42,920 and in Bradford at the weekends but uh 27 00:02:39,599 --> 00:02:47,080 no more I'm back in my London house now 28 00:02:42,920 --> 00:02:49,360 okay so uh what are your plans now what 29 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:51,400 what do you plan to do now you are a 30 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:54,080 politician but you don't have a seat now 31 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:56,120 you lost elections well that's right of 32 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:59,000 course I'm not the only politician to 33 00:02:56,120 --> 00:03:00,440 have lost his seat and many politicians 34 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:03,680 in many elections 35 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:06,159 lose their seats the important thing is 36 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:08,799 that they don't lose heart and that they 37 00:03:06,159 --> 00:03:11,959 don't lose their principles and I can 38 00:03:08,799 --> 00:03:13,640 assure you neither will happen to me I 39 00:03:11,959 --> 00:03:15,720 have many other things to do I'm about 40 00:03:13,640 --> 00:03:18,760 to release a film a 41 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:21,799 90minut uh featurelength documentary on 42 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:24,680 Tony Blair called the killings of Tony 43 00:03:21,799 --> 00:03:28,040 Blair which I think will be a very big 44 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:29,879 uh uh success I'm hoping so in any case 45 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:32,480 I'm still presenting my television 46 00:03:29,879 --> 00:03:34,760 programs three television programs on 47 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:37,720 three different stations and of course 48 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:41,080 I'll write uh and who knows what the 49 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:44,040 next political electoral battle will 50 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:45,879 be what is this movie all about killing 51 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:50,239 of Tony 52 00:03:45,879 --> 00:03:53,079 Blair well it was the it is the uh 53 00:03:50,239 --> 00:03:56,439 biggest crowdfunded film in British 54 00:03:53,079 --> 00:03:59,840 history and the largest crowdfunding 55 00:03:56,439 --> 00:04:03,879 budget for a documentary film in the 56 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:07,400 world uh such is the appetite for 57 00:04:03,879 --> 00:04:10,959 bringing Tony Blair to book uh putting 58 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:14,079 him in the dock if not literally the 59 00:04:10,959 --> 00:04:16,479 dock then metaphorically the dock it 60 00:04:14,079 --> 00:04:18,639 deals with three killings first of all 61 00:04:16,479 --> 00:04:22,120 the killing of the labor party as we 62 00:04:18,639 --> 00:04:24,280 knew it its transformation from one 63 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:26,720 thing into another a 64 00:04:24,280 --> 00:04:29,759 metamorphosis the second killing is a 65 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:32,639 million people in Iraq an uncounted 66 00:04:29,759 --> 00:04:35,120 number in Afghanistan and in the 67 00:04:32,639 --> 00:04:38,320 extremism that's now cascading around 68 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:40,880 the world many many more corpses have 69 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:44,440 been laid in the ground and the third 70 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:47,280 killing is the financial killing that he 71 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:50,600 has been making out of the previous two 72 00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:53,280 killings which has netted him 100 73 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:56,560 million pounds in just seven years since 74 00:04:53,280 --> 00:04:59,919 leaving office so there's a lot of uh 75 00:04:56,560 --> 00:05:02,400 interest in such a story and a lot 76 00:04:59,919 --> 00:05:05,720 public interest in learning the lessons 77 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:09,479 from such a story so it'll be coming to 78 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:12,800 Cinemas and on some kind of pay-per-view 79 00:05:09,479 --> 00:05:15,680 platform Netflix or one of the others uh 80 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:20,039 quite soon within the next uh month or 81 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:23,400 so so very this is very interesting and 82 00:05:20,039 --> 00:05:25,120 um can you come up with a precise date 83 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:27,199 about this documentary which you're 84 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:31,520 coming up with well I've just returned 85 00:05:27,199 --> 00:05:33,479 after six weeks uh steud day-to-day 247 86 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:35,680 really campaigning in badford so I'm 87 00:05:33,479 --> 00:05:41,360 behind the curve a little bit but 88 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:45,319 tomorrow I'm going to view a 2hour edit 89 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:47,880 of the film we had tens of hours so it's 90 00:05:45,319 --> 00:05:51,120 now down to 2 hours so half an hour 91 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:53,680 still to be locked off uh and then that 92 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:57,280 will be uh finished it will go for the 93 00:05:53,680 --> 00:06:00,400 various Technical colorization and sound 94 00:05:57,280 --> 00:06:04,840 uh coordination and so on but uh 95 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:07,440 tomorrow God willing I'll see a good um 96 00:06:04,840 --> 00:06:09,759 a good percentage of what's finally 97 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:12,520 going to be in the film how it's finally 98 00:06:09,759 --> 00:06:15,919 going to look like you said that uh in 99 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:20,199 this documentary uh you're like uh 100 00:06:15,919 --> 00:06:22,639 addressing this uh area also about Iraq 101 00:06:20,199 --> 00:06:25,080 and uh yes what exactly are you like 102 00:06:22,639 --> 00:06:27,720 focusing on Iraq in this particular 103 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:30,520 documentary well it's it's 104 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:33,639 chronological uh to some extent not 105 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:36,759 entirely it starts with Mr Blair's 106 00:06:33,639 --> 00:06:40,479 capture of the labor party on the death 107 00:06:36,759 --> 00:06:43,160 of the previous leader John Smith and 108 00:06:40,479 --> 00:06:45,919 how he set about murdering the labor 109 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:48,840 party as it previously was I was a 110 00:06:45,919 --> 00:06:52,039 member of it for 36 years and a member 111 00:06:48,840 --> 00:06:54,160 of parliament for it for almost 20 years 112 00:06:52,039 --> 00:06:57,440 and so that killing is particularly 113 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:59,840 important to me but probably not as 114 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:01,800 important to the international audience 115 00:06:59,840 --> 00:07:04,280 so it moves quite swiftly on to the 116 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:07,280 second stage which is the killing of all 117 00:07:04,280 --> 00:07:09,840 these people in Iraq in Afghanistan in 118 00:07:07,280 --> 00:07:13,080 drone attacks in Pakistan all the deaths 119 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:15,599 caused by the so-called war on terror uh 120 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:18,080 which has really been a war of Terror 121 00:07:15,599 --> 00:07:21,680 and all the extremism that it has 122 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:24,360 spawned indirectly but as a result of 123 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:28,039 what happened and then I would say the 124 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:30,039 Lion Share of the film deals with the 125 00:07:28,039 --> 00:07:33,919 financial killing Mr Blair 126 00:07:30,039 --> 00:07:37,000 is now working for uh it's almost 127 00:07:33,919 --> 00:07:40,000 difficult to count the number of grizzly 128 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:42,960 regimes dictatorships for whom he's now 129 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:44,560 working with whom he's now profiting uh 130 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:46,840 including many of them in the Middle 131 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:49,599 East which is a clear conflict of 132 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:52,120 interest of course given his position as 133 00:07:49,599 --> 00:07:55,680 the Middle East peace Envoy the least 134 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:58,560 successful peace Envoy in history but 135 00:07:55,680 --> 00:08:01,599 financially he's uh really done 136 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:02,919 extremely well transforming him himself 137 00:08:01,599 --> 00:08:05,800 into one of the richest men in the 138 00:08:02,919 --> 00:08:08,800 country and it was my duty to defend the 139 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:12,319 community to defend the Muslims and to 140 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:14,390 defend the pakistanis in uh in B and 141 00:08:12,319 --> 00:08:19,390 that's what I tried to 142 00:08:14,390 --> 00:08:19,390 [Music] 143 00:08:20,759 --> 00:08:26,479 do okay uh you know 144 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:31,200 uh there was a 145 00:08:26,479 --> 00:08:37,200 time in 1994 before you when you visited 146 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:40,320 Iraq and uh yes you you made a speech in 147 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:42,760 favor of Saddam Hussein and you then 148 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:46,160 said that is it was not for Saddam 149 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:49,519 Hussein it was for the people of Iraq 150 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:53,120 and you said that you quote quote in 151 00:08:49,519 --> 00:08:58,000 quote I salute your courage sir I salute 152 00:08:53,120 --> 00:09:01,160 your courage Your strength your uh your 153 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:04,079 courage was this for uh I salute your 154 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:07,040 courage and your strength was the were 155 00:09:04,079 --> 00:09:08,880 these comments for Saddam Hussein or the 156 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:11,600 people of 157 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:14,079 Iraq well there were for the people of 158 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:17,480 Iraq as I've explained uh I don't know 159 00:09:14,079 --> 00:09:21,279 how many thousands of times now uh and 160 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:25,120 uh how little did I know then how much 161 00:09:21,279 --> 00:09:27,160 courage how much strength how much 162 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:30,079 indefatigability they were going to have 163 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:34,120 to find because of course course they 164 00:09:30,079 --> 00:09:36,200 endured uh a further decade of economic 165 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:38,839 sanctions which were killing Iraqi 166 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:41,519 children at the rate of one every seven 167 00:09:38,839 --> 00:09:45,440 minutes of every day and night and then 168 00:09:41,519 --> 00:09:50,880 they were invaded again uh occupied and 169 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:55,279 now are atomized into dozens of militia 170 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:57,880 Thoms instead of a single Iraq State and 171 00:09:55,279 --> 00:10:01,839 of course although there was no al-Qaeda 172 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:06,000 in Iraq before Bush and Blair invaded it 173 00:10:01,839 --> 00:10:09,160 not only is there now a huge presence of 174 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:14,079 al-Qaeda in fact Al-Qaeda are now 175 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:16,920 moderate compared to the Isis phenomenon 176 00:10:14,079 --> 00:10:20,360 which has been spawned by 177 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:23,680 Al-Qaeda uh so it has been an absolute 178 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:26,399 catastrophe the whole Iraq story a 179 00:10:23,680 --> 00:10:29,760 catastrophe for Iraq a catastrophe for 180 00:10:26,399 --> 00:10:32,440 the region a catastrophe for the umah 181 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:34,920 and a catastrophe for the world that's a 182 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:37,480 pretty pretty strong series of 183 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:41,000 catastrophes and nobody has been held to 184 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:45,079 account for it far from being punished 185 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:49,160 Mr Blair has profited far from being 186 00:10:45,079 --> 00:10:52,120 punished Mr Bush is uh coloring in his 187 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:53,760 books in his Presidential Library 188 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:56,399 entirely 189 00:10:53,760 --> 00:11:00,000 unmolested uh and those of us who stood 190 00:10:56,399 --> 00:11:02,959 out against them are the ones who uh The 191 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:06,560 Establishment has unrelentingly tried to 192 00:11:02,959 --> 00:11:10,800 punish uh but God is greater than all of 193 00:11:06,560 --> 00:11:13,399 those and truth will out and our film I 194 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:15,440 hope is a contribution to that 195 00:11:13,399 --> 00:11:17,880 truth uh you 196 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:21,399 testified uh I'll just go to the United 197 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:25,399 States again uh you testified to the 198 00:11:21,399 --> 00:11:28,440 United States Senate in 205 over alleged 199 00:11:25,399 --> 00:11:31,920 illicit payments from the United Nations 200 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:35,800 oil for food program what was that all 201 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:39,000 about well it's part of the uh part of 202 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:40,959 the chain of events I just described 203 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:44,639 that those who committed the crimes 204 00:11:40,959 --> 00:11:47,240 against Iraq and against the world have 205 00:11:44,639 --> 00:11:49,680 profited and uh and none of them have 206 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:52,360 been punished or held to account and 207 00:11:49,680 --> 00:11:55,200 those who stood against them uh they 208 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:58,160 have attempted to punish in the case of 209 00:11:55,200 --> 00:12:01,279 my appearance which uh I insisted upon 210 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:04,399 making they didn't call me or even want 211 00:12:01,279 --> 00:12:07,000 me to come uh I insisted on holding them 212 00:12:04,399 --> 00:12:10,320 to account and if people watch it on 213 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:13,880 YouTube where tens of millions of people 214 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:17,320 have it was probably my finest hour I 215 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:20,399 came there not as the accused but as the 216 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:22,839 accuser and pointed to them dripping in 217 00:12:20,399 --> 00:12:26,959 the blood as they were of what has 218 00:12:22,839 --> 00:12:30,880 turned into millions of people and spoke 219 00:12:26,959 --> 00:12:34,560 the truth in the court of sulan which as 220 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:36,160 you know is uh is a is the right thing 221 00:12:34,560 --> 00:12:39,440 to 222 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:41,199 do okay um I just want to come to the 223 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:44,440 elections now because we have very very 224 00:12:41,199 --> 00:12:46,199 short span over here uh I wish we had a 225 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:48,360 longer period we we could have 226 00:12:46,199 --> 00:12:51,120 interacted with you but we have a very 227 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:56,399 short period with us and uh as you know 228 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:59,360 you a u TV uh show host yourself um yes 229 00:12:56,399 --> 00:13:02,399 let's come to the uh breadfood West 230 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:06,240 election field where you lost the 231 00:13:02,399 --> 00:13:09,920 elections uh from Naas 232 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:13,399 sha you made some Acquisitions against 233 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:16,519 Naas like uh like about forced marriage 234 00:13:13,399 --> 00:13:18,360 of Naas and uh like about uh there were 235 00:13:16,519 --> 00:13:20,560 some other Acquisitions I know how 236 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:23,560 things work in the election campaign but 237 00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:25,920 then again did you really mean those 238 00:13:23,560 --> 00:13:28,760 things when you were talking about NASA 239 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:30,320 or was that just a election campaign 240 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:33,519 slow 241 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:36,079 Hans uh well I'm restricted in what I 242 00:13:33,519 --> 00:13:38,800 can say because we have an election 243 00:13:36,079 --> 00:13:42,079 petition before the appropriate 244 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:46,199 authorities now to set the result of the 245 00:13:42,079 --> 00:13:49,680 election aside uh and I can't go into 246 00:13:46,199 --> 00:13:52,880 for legal reasons okay uh the case that 247 00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:56,920 we will be making there but what I can 248 00:13:52,880 --> 00:14:01,440 say is that uh my opponent now the 249 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:05,880 Member of Parliament uh uh and her media 250 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:09,399 allies were playing into the worst 251 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:12,279 stereotyping of the Pakistani Community 252 00:14:09,399 --> 00:14:15,160 you have to know here that pakistanis 253 00:14:12,279 --> 00:14:19,560 are routinely demonized and 254 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:23,240 caricatured as people who are uh 255 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:26,079 grooming young girls and forcing 256 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:31,440 marriage upon people in defiance not 257 00:14:26,079 --> 00:14:34,480 only of the law but of the uh uh the 258 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:38,040 religion uh that every Pakistani in 259 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:42,000 Bradford is somehow touched by drug 260 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:46,680 dealing and uh all kinds of illicit and 261 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:49,519 vice illicit uh behavior and vice all of 262 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:52,360 that was played into as a narrative and 263 00:14:49,519 --> 00:14:55,240 it was my duty to defend the community 264 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:58,040 to defend the Muslims and to defend the 265 00:14:55,240 --> 00:15:00,120 pakistanis in uh in Bradford and that's 266 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:02,680 what I tried to do 267 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:04,600 then what happened if I may ask if you 268 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:07,440 were doing so much for the Pakistani 269 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:09,680 community in Bradford West especially uh 270 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:10,680 what went wrong and where why did you 271 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:14,360 lose the 272 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:17,920 elections well uh as I say we're trying 273 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:21,240 to have the result set aside um so I'm 274 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:24,600 restricted in what I can say uh but uh 275 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:28,800 certainly the result came as a shock to 276 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:32,199 us and to everyone who was there and uh 277 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:36,519 and a surprise I think to even my 278 00:15:32,199 --> 00:15:39,000 opponents uh so it's too early to say 279 00:15:36,519 --> 00:15:42,360 you'll have to wait for the wheels of 280 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:46,319 Justice to grind they grind exceedingly 281 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:49,360 slow but they grind exceedingly fine and 282 00:15:46,319 --> 00:15:51,959 uh all will be out in due course was was 283 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:54,079 that a surprise for your opponent as 284 00:15:51,959 --> 00:15:55,920 well who won the elections that's what 285 00:15:54,079 --> 00:15:58,240 you're saying uh I don't know about my 286 00:15:55,920 --> 00:16:02,040 opponent it was certainly a surprise to 287 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:04,480 the labor campaigners in the election 288 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:07,880 and it's a shock and a surprise to the 289 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:10,680 constituents who went to sleep uh after 290 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:13,199 casting their votes and woke up to find 291 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:17,160 a result they never in their Wildest 292 00:16:13,199 --> 00:16:20,839 Dreams imagined the bookmakers had me at 293 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:23,319 uh 13 to8 on favorite that is to say for 294 00:16:20,839 --> 00:16:27,720 those who don't understand these things 295 00:16:23,319 --> 00:16:31,399 a nailed on red hot uh favorite to win 296 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:35,240 the exit Pole that was released at the 297 00:16:31,399 --> 00:16:39,279 close of poll 10 p.m. had me holding my 298 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:42,120 seat uh the journalists began writing 299 00:16:39,279 --> 00:16:45,639 that I had held my seat uh but that's 300 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:48,920 not what happened so we'll see in the 301 00:16:45,639 --> 00:16:51,560 end do do you uh do you know how much 302 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:54,959 time will it take to uh come up with 303 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:58,199 these results the the verdict from the 304 00:16:54,959 --> 00:17:02,240 from wherever the uh plea is there about 305 00:16:58,199 --> 00:17:05,919 this C uh I don't know uh I don't know 306 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:09,679 um but our uh our petition has to be 307 00:17:05,919 --> 00:17:12,799 lodged within 21 days we're Gathering 308 00:17:09,679 --> 00:17:15,600 evidence uh and uh well be well within 309 00:17:12,799 --> 00:17:18,679 the 21 days uh our petition will be 310 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:22,480 filed then it will have uh legal 311 00:17:18,679 --> 00:17:26,720 privilege and uh anyone can report on it 312 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:29,679 uh at well okay so uh there's no precise 313 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:33,080 time you can come up with that uh no no 314 00:17:29,679 --> 00:17:36,880 uh I don't um and I I don't think the 315 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:40,640 investigation needs to take particularly 316 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:43,799 long um but our petition will be lodged 317 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:46,080 within the 21 days and uh they have 318 00:17:43,799 --> 00:17:50,120 notice of it the labor party has notice 319 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:53,480 of it uh and uh it's then in the hands 320 00:17:50,120 --> 00:17:53,480 of the authorities how long it 321 00:17:54,000 --> 00:18:02,000 takes in his entire life never ever SP a 322 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:04,679 single word in favor of 323 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:07,760 Kashmir uh when you were also concerned 324 00:18:04,679 --> 00:18:11,320 about Kashmir you were very close to Y 325 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:16,120 did you ever ask him about this thing or 326 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:18,840 or no I did I did and uh the the answer 327 00:18:16,120 --> 00:18:23,849 would be uh 328 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:23,849 [Music] 329 00:18:26,559 --> 00:18:32,760 geopolitics G you've been supporting 330 00:18:28,799 --> 00:18:34,280 putting the Palestinian side uh a lot 331 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:37,760 the Palestinians the cause of 332 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:39,919 Palestinians the Palestinians right and 333 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:42,400 why why why had you been like so 334 00:18:39,919 --> 00:18:45,080 outspoken for the Palestinians any 335 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:47,440 specific reasons for that well uh when I 336 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:50,919 first became involved in the Palestinian 337 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:54,760 issue which is as long ago as 1975 so 338 00:18:50,919 --> 00:18:56,799 exactly 40 years ago in the midsummer of 339 00:18:54,760 --> 00:19:00,480 40 years ago 340 00:18:56,799 --> 00:19:04,640 1975 uh I knew that I would be making uh 341 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:07,799 rich and Powerful enemies uh perhaps I 342 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:10,000 didn't appreciate how rich how powerful 343 00:19:07,799 --> 00:19:12,440 uh perhaps I didn't appreciate how 344 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:14,840 Unfaithful uh some of those who have 345 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:18,039 obligations towards the Palestinians 346 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:22,840 would turn out to be uh but I could do 347 00:19:18,039 --> 00:19:25,200 no other and I visited Lebanon in 1977 I 348 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:29,280 met president Arafat may God have mercy 349 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:32,840 upon him uh and uh he became became like 350 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:34,919 a an older brother to me and I became 351 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:38,000 very close to him I was at his bedside 352 00:19:34,919 --> 00:19:41,440 when he died in Paris in the per 353 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:44,080 Military Hospital in the course of those 354 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:46,840 40 years I have 355 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:49,600 befriended uh thousands thousands of 356 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:53,360 Palestinian people and I think Millions 357 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:57,360 have appreciated my efforts so for me 358 00:19:53,360 --> 00:20:00,640 it's personal as well as political uh 359 00:19:57,360 --> 00:20:02,760 and uh I will never stop as long as God 360 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:06,280 gives me 361 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:08,840 breath okay so what's this attachment 362 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:11,280 with the Pakistan have you spent some 363 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:14,280 time in Karachi I 364 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:17,320 believe well I hold Pakistan's two 365 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:19,600 highest civil Awards the halali the 366 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:22,559 halali Pakistan and the halali 367 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:25,280 kadm the L for my work on the 368 00:20:22,559 --> 00:20:26,039 restoration of democracy in Pakistan in 369 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:29,480 the 370 00:20:26,039 --> 00:20:35,120 1980s and the former former work on 371 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:37,919 Kashmir over well over 30 years uh so uh 372 00:20:35,120 --> 00:20:40,039 I have a deep attachment to Pakistan a 373 00:20:37,919 --> 00:20:41,840 deep attachment to the Pakistani 374 00:20:40,039 --> 00:20:46,799 Community here in 375 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:48,720 Britain uh I share many things in common 376 00:20:46,799 --> 00:20:52,640 uh with them in terms of a view of the 377 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:55,000 world and so on uh but Karachi is a 378 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:58,240 special place to me I love the city very 379 00:20:55,000 --> 00:21:02,240 much it's a world city an iconic City 380 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:06,760 that should be one of the citadels of 381 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:09,640 culture and of uh Prosperity but of 382 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:12,360 course it is stricken by political 383 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:13,720 violence and organized crime and the 384 00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:18,039 last time I was there which was in 385 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:22,320 January of last year uh for the literary 386 00:21:18,039 --> 00:21:25,360 Festival uh which was a great success uh 387 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:29,640 which I hope will continue to be so uh I 388 00:21:25,360 --> 00:21:33,799 had to be fed around in a very large 389 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:37,279 fank of security forces um and that's a 390 00:21:33,799 --> 00:21:41,840 terrible way to View 391 00:21:37,279 --> 00:21:44,400 Karachi okay coming back to the yasat 392 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:46,480 thing and the Palestinian thing um I 393 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:51,080 would like to ask you a question you 394 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:54,559 know uh your closeness with yasat and 395 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:56,720 you you regard him very high and uh but 396 00:21:54,559 --> 00:21:59,400 at the very same time you are concerned 397 00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:02,039 about the Kashmir issue Bradford there 398 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:05,159 are lots of Kashmir families putting up 399 00:22:02,039 --> 00:22:06,720 in breadfood as well um and they are 400 00:22:05,159 --> 00:22:08,799 very much in your 401 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:11,799 constituency how 402 00:22:08,799 --> 00:22:16,480 come 403 00:22:11,799 --> 00:22:19,840 yasat in his entire life never ever 404 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:22,480 uttered a single word in the favor of 405 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:25,600 Kashmir uh when you were also concerned 406 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:29,120 about Kashmir you're very close to Yas 407 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:33,559 did you ever ask him about this thing or 408 00:22:29,120 --> 00:22:38,080 or no I did uh I did and uh the the 409 00:22:33,559 --> 00:22:43,200 answer would be uh geopolitics GE the uh 410 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:47,039 previous regimes in India were a part of 411 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:50,880 if you like an international Camp uh of 412 00:22:47,039 --> 00:22:56,039 uh non-alignment and close to the Soviet 413 00:22:50,880 --> 00:23:00,320 Union and Arafat was in part dependent 414 00:22:56,039 --> 00:23:05,000 on that camp uh it is 415 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:09,120 regrettable uh that he did not see that 416 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:13,520 uh India's position then would change uh 417 00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:17,120 and that in any case one has to speak 418 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:20,000 with principle one cannot uh accept that 419 00:23:17,120 --> 00:23:22,320 my enemy's enemy is my friend because 420 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:24,960 your enemy's enemy is not necessarily 421 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:29,360 your friend and that you must speak up 422 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:32,279 for hack for justice for right uh 423 00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:34,480 wherever it is being trampled upon 424 00:23:32,279 --> 00:23:39,159 irrespective of it's being trampled upon 425 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:42,200 even by your own family uh so it's uh 426 00:23:39,159 --> 00:23:45,520 it's a matter of great regret to me that 427 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:48,799 I could never persuade him to see that 428 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:52,360 I'm sure that in his heart he saw it but 429 00:23:48,799 --> 00:23:53,240 uh as a political Statesman hemmed in by 430 00:23:52,360 --> 00:23:56,200 many 431 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:59,120 enemies uh he had to take his 432 00:23:56,200 --> 00:24:02,679 friendships where he could find them and 433 00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:05,520 uh that's uh the way it was it never 434 00:24:02,679 --> 00:24:08,919 stopped me I was 435 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:12,960 coterminous a leader of the struggle for 436 00:24:08,919 --> 00:24:15,000 Palestinian rights and a figure in the 437 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:18,039 struggle for the rights of the people of 438 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:21,159 Jammu and Kashmir uh because both of 439 00:24:18,039 --> 00:24:25,720 those causes were right and they 440 00:24:21,159 --> 00:24:30,159 required uh me to make a stand on them 441 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:34,399 um the two cases are actually strikingly 442 00:24:30,159 --> 00:24:37,960 similar almost uh to the to the month in 443 00:24:34,399 --> 00:24:42,000 terms of the catastrophes that they both 444 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:45,440 suffered uh the intifada in Palestine 445 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:50,760 coincides almost exactly with the 446 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:54,919 intifada in uh occupied Kashmir and the 447 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:58,360 atrocities visited upon the occupied 448 00:24:54,919 --> 00:25:01,640 people are even worse in Kashmir cons 449 00:24:58,360 --> 00:25:04,039 considerably worse actually uh than than 450 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:07,559 suffered by the people in occupied 451 00:25:04,039 --> 00:25:09,600 Palestine uh so these two issues which 452 00:25:07,559 --> 00:25:12,480 are both issues of 453 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:15,679 postcolonialism are strikingly similar 454 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:18,200 to me and I never saw any argument for 455 00:25:15,679 --> 00:25:20,600 uh for separating them uh forced the 456 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:23,679 British government to first of all 457 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:26,840 explain why they gave a British passport 458 00:25:23,679 --> 00:25:29,250 and citizenship to alar Hussein the 459 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:36,680 leader of the MQM 460 00:25:29,250 --> 00:25:36,680 [Music] 461 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:44,840 okay I'll I'll continue this uh 462 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:47,240 particular Topic in a bit but before I 463 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:50,120 go to my next question you were talking 464 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:52,440 about your visit to Karachi and you were 465 00:25:50,120 --> 00:25:55,320 like guarded and like you were by 466 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:57,480 protected by the guards to see to roam 467 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:59,360 about in the city of Karachi and you 468 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:02,240 never liked it 469 00:25:59,360 --> 00:26:05,039 uh what do you have what you come up 470 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:07,240 with like very blunt statements against 471 00:26:05,039 --> 00:26:11,279 a particular organization a political 472 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:15,880 politic political party of Pakistan and 473 00:26:11,279 --> 00:26:18,679 uh but uh but how do you see this thing 474 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:20,760 because there are so many hostile 475 00:26:18,679 --> 00:26:23,480 intelligence outfits which are like very 476 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:27,240 much active in Pakistan and especially 477 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:29,919 in Karachi and uh how do you take that 478 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:32,360 uh thing you know 479 00:26:29,919 --> 00:26:35,919 well I I was uh traveling in the 480 00:26:32,360 --> 00:26:37,840 bulletproof bombproof uh car of the then 481 00:26:35,919 --> 00:26:41,320 president of Pakistan and I was 482 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:44,559 surrounded by this fank of armed uh 483 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:46,760 Troopers very large number of them so I 484 00:26:44,559 --> 00:26:49,960 wasn't able to do as much roaming around 485 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:52,000 as I have done in the past in the city 486 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:55,600 and political violence in the city is of 487 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:58,360 course not unique to the MQM to which I 488 00:26:55,600 --> 00:27:02,520 shall turn in just a moment uh the 489 00:26:58,360 --> 00:27:05,520 presence of al-Qaeda in Pakistan uh the 490 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:10,440 presence of the so-called Pakistan 491 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:13,919 Taliban uh were exploding uh bombs in uh 492 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:16,440 cities nearby uh or in the same uh 493 00:27:13,919 --> 00:27:20,080 Province uh whilst I was there there was 494 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:23,000 an atrocity against Shia mosque I think 495 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:26,720 uh certainly the Shia community in qua 496 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:29,200 uh at uh at the same time as I was there 497 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:32,200 but the reason for regarding me 498 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:36,159 particularly was because for 10 long 499 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:38,520 years I have been trying to uh force the 500 00:27:36,159 --> 00:27:41,559 British government to first of all 501 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:44,720 explain why they gave a British passport 502 00:27:41,559 --> 00:27:48,360 and citizenship to Ala Hussein the 503 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:52,159 leader of the MQM and more importantly 504 00:27:48,360 --> 00:27:55,399 why they were allowing him to coordinate 505 00:27:52,159 --> 00:27:59,159 political violence from London after all 506 00:27:55,399 --> 00:28:02,679 was supposedly in the era of uh 507 00:27:59,159 --> 00:28:06,159 anti-terrorism the war on terrorism yet 508 00:28:02,679 --> 00:28:09,399 terrorism was being is being coordinated 509 00:28:06,159 --> 00:28:12,159 from London by the leader of the MQM by 510 00:28:09,399 --> 00:28:14,640 a British citizen so in that sense I was 511 00:28:12,159 --> 00:28:17,440 not interfering in Pakistan's Internal 512 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:20,399 Affairs this is a British internal 513 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:24,600 Affair and uh the British government 514 00:28:20,399 --> 00:28:27,360 have singularly failed to explain why 515 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:29,080 this is being allowed to continue and 516 00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:33,159 therefore 517 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:35,720 speculation about their dark motives uh 518 00:28:33,159 --> 00:28:39,120 has continued I have never received a 519 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:40,840 proper answer to any of these questions 520 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:44,159 of course I'm no longer in Parliament 521 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:48,039 I'll no longer be able to pursue it but 522 00:28:44,159 --> 00:28:53,200 uh it's now a police matter uh and uh 523 00:28:48,039 --> 00:28:56,760 the police are uh closing in uh on ala 524 00:28:53,200 --> 00:29:01,760 Hussein uh this much I 525 00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:04,640 know uh one last comment on your uh this 526 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:07,519 thing that which I asked earlier and 527 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:09,880 that was that the Hostile countries 528 00:29:07,519 --> 00:29:13,440 which are hostile towards 529 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:17,600 Pakistan their intelligence outfits are 530 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:18,360 very much active in Pakistan especially 531 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:21,159 in 532 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:25,360 Karachi what do you have to say about 533 00:29:21,159 --> 00:29:28,159 this last sentence please well I I have 534 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:31,480 no doubt that uh that neighboring 535 00:29:28,159 --> 00:29:34,960 countries with hostile intent uh have 536 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:38,279 their fingerprints on many of the 537 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:40,760 internal problems suffered in Pakistan 538 00:29:38,279 --> 00:29:44,320 and by pakistanis I don't believe 539 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:47,720 they're the principal reason uh they act 540 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:51,760 on pre-existing tensions and divisions 541 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:54,519 and conflicts uh but they do act uh and 542 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:57,679 of course uh there are some who are more 543 00:29:54,519 --> 00:29:59,519 than ready to cooperate with them uh 544 00:29:57,679 --> 00:30:02,600 receive receive weapons from them 545 00:29:59,519 --> 00:30:05,480 receive uh money from them receive uh 546 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:09,760 other media and technological support 547 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:12,960 from them uh of that no 548 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:15,640 doubt George uh I really appreciate you 549 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:17,360 taking out time for me coming on my show 550 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:20,880 not all this is the first interview I've 551 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:22,720 given since losing my seat so uh it's 552 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:24,200 been nice to talk to you thanks for the 553 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:26,200 opportunity play is all mine you're 554 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:29,919 always welcome on my show thank you very 555 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,919 much once again George 556 00:30:34,399 --> 00:30:40,880 towards and especially towards the 557 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,880 Muslim Community in 558 00:30:42,220 --> 00:30:49,150 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