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[Music]

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I'm George Galloway and I present Cal

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Imahara on our my Dean television here

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we are in London I speak my words really

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either in Parliament on television here

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on the streets of London Cal Imahara

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means free work - for ice cream - Cal

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Imahara in the two-way conversation

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check it out on our my team television

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welcome to Cali Mahalo with me George

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Galloway on Al mayadeen television

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coming to you from London talking about

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China China is already arguably the most

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important country on the earth the

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biggest population the biggest economy

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and the biggest army and in the lifetime

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of the youngest viewer of this program

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this evening it will be pre-eminently so

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incontestably so this is a reality which

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some in the West are finding difficult

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to handle and indeed they're doing

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everything that they can to slow the

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progress to that inevitable end whether

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its economic sanctions against Huawei

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excluding Chinese technology from

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Western economies whether it's finding

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one cause celebra or another one day

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it's the Falun Gong religious sect the

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next its Tibet the Dalai Lama and most

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recently the vexatious question of

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China's Muslim minority we'll come back

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to that in just a couple of minutes but

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China is beginning now to influence

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political decision making in a way that

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even a few years ago was difficult to

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imagine Chinese people followed the

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rubric of when you're strong appear weak

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when you're weak appear strong

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and they take things very cautiously and

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carefully but I'll tell you the moment

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when I realized that things had begun to

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change when the David Cameron's

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Conservative government in Britain tried

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but failed to persuade the British

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Parliament to launch bombing raids on

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the government of Syria and its armed

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forces the British government were

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working themselves into a lather over

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China's policy towards the matter I was

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a member of parliament at that time and

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I well remember as a foreign affairs

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specialist being invited to a private

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briefing from the then Foreign Secretary

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William Hague who told us with great

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exasperation that he had been trying to

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reach the Chinese Foreign Minister on

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the telephone to try to persuade them to

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support British involvement in the war

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against the government of Syria and mr.

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Haig informed us in sorrow and in anger

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that the Chinese Foreign Minister simply

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refused to come to the phone to talk to

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him instead he sent a functionary his

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personal secretary

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to tell the British Foreign Secretary

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there are no circumstances in which

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China will support the bombardment of

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Syria and I remember thinking at the

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time that this insult to the former

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Greek colonial power of Great Britain

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marked something of a turning point and

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in the few years since China has begun

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to put its foot down in the political

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sphere it has begun to show I was going

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to say acquire but certainly show a

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political weight commensurate with its

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economic weight its population weight

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its strategic importance and we'll be

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looking at that subject today

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China is a gigantic success story the

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government of China has lifted more

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people out of poverty than any system

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any government ever has in the entire

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history of the human race China is a

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buzzing humming economic power and it is

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beginning to be obviously so even to the

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least astute of Western observers that's

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not to say that there is nothing wrong

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with China's policy at home or abroad I

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argue that the most significant

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potential weakness for China is the

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Muslim question in China which many of

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you watching this today will already be

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familiar with you won't necessarily be

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familiar with the true facts but you

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will be familiar with the general

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narrative that is being spun namely that

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China is suppressing or pressing its

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Muslim minority the Uighur people in

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Sinkiang and other Chinese Muslims that

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China launches an annual war on Ramadan

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stopping people from worshipping

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stopping them from fasting I even saw a

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meme the other day that China is forcing

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Uighur Muslims in China to drink alcohol

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most of that is complete nonsense

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it's Western propaganda but not all of

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it and I have some history in this

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regard in the 1990s early in the 1990s

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before anyone in the West had ever heard

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of the name or sama Bin Ladin I gave a

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lecture to the International Department

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of the Central Committee of the Chinese

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Communist Party warning them that a US

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turn against China

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had begun and that bin Laden and the

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Islamist trend

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he represented was being pointed at

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China because already with the failure

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of the following Gong the failure of

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Tibet some wedge had to be found by

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Western imperialist countries to be

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driven into China to try and slow if not

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halt

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China's apparently inexorable advance I

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remember it well because even the

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Chinese party functionaries that I was

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talking to had never heard of Osama bin

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Laden they certainly didn't know how to

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spell his name because they queued up

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around me for the English spelling of

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his name it is true that the West is

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using China's Muslim problem to damage

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China but it is also true that the

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Chinese government is handling its

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Muslim question far from perfectly but

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that's not the only issue we're going to

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talk the this evening about the belt and

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road initiative which essentially and on

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the face of it certainly is a non

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imperialist policy of linking up the

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world through transport infrastructure

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industrial investment to try and allow

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these countries in which particularly in

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Africa China is heavily involved though

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it's heavily involved in Latin America

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to to try and strengthen the

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infrastructure of these countries to the

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mutual benefit of everyone and that's

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good but there are concerns in Africa in

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particular that this could turn at some

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date in the future into a kind of new

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imperialism a new colonialism there is a

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sense in some places amongst some people

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in Africa that China is becoming rather

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too ubiquitous in their economies and in

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their societies

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until now China has shown not a

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scintilla of interest in interfering in

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anybody else's political affairs on the

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contrary China maintains and has always

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maintained good relations if I take a

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country like Pakistan for example with

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any and all regimes that have come to

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power either legally democratically or

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by military coup and China has treated

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those governments those regimes exactly

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the same maintaining that it's policy is

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of friendship towards the people of

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Pakistan rather than any government

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which is of course here today and gone

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tomorrow we have an audience here this

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evening of distinguished experts and one

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or two enthusiastic amateurs like me so

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let's kick off the debate on China's

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belt and Road initiative what it means

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and what kind of China are we seeing now

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more and more clearly in the light let

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me start with you sir thank you my name

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is ed David Otto I am an anti-terrorism

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and organized crime a specialist for

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globe erics International I thank you

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very much for the discussions you are

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talking about especially when we talk

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about China that is imagine or also off

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so to speak or actually the J one of the

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giant nations in the world especially

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when you you talk about the internal

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dynamics because there is no nation that

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would be as powerful as the u.s. used to

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be or East or the Great Britain used to

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be and it is without having a very

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powerful internal economy and internal

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stability and this is what China has

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been working on it used to be referred

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to as the sleeping giant you know the

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world where that giant has now arose and

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the internal strategy which China has

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been used in has been in such a way that

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with its you know huge population but

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anyway any any continent or any country

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in the world they've managed to

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stabilize the country to in such a way

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that it allows them to go externally and

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coming to the building of the Silk Road

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which

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you know inevitably it's going to cost

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more than nine hundred million u.s.

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dollars now the reason why China is

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doing that again as you said perhaps

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could be for you know help in other

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countries in Africa or in the Middle

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East or Europe to develop their internal

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economies but primarily there is no

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friendship there is no enmity China does

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that for its own interests primarily

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secondary perhaps you know and again

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it's made perhaps it is doing that to

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assist or you know a create the

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globalization that it talks about but

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when you look at the stick that China

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gets the reason for that is because you

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know most countries like the United

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States they are the super powers when it

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comes to military prowess

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you know Great Britain you know they did

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very well during the days of

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colonization they colonize most of the

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world and they made the name of that

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china is looking to make its name out of

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its economic

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infrastructures out of his economic

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investments because they believe of

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course I mean they believe that the only

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way for them to compete you know on the

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same platform with you know the United

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States and with Great Britain is for

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them to expand economically they have

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the the the people the numbers game on

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your side they have the population that

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can can consume some of these economic

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benefits that they will be bringing to

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China they have the money to spend the

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physical cost to spend they're comparing

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you know head-to-head with the

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international monetary form the IMF so I

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think but you know the position that

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China it's its place in itself is no

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doubt a serious threat you know I may

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say to you know the United States

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because and Great Britain of course and

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other superpowers but again you know the

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this is all about geopolitics this is

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all about China's personal interest if I

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were to advise all the countries you now

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tell them to strike a deal that would be

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beneficial to their economies that would

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be beneficial to their people because

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China will not do any deal that would

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not be beneficial to his people and

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that's where think China stands

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excellent introduction thank you for the

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Adam Gary you are the head of Eurasia

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future you specialize in this field how

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do you see

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this new China that is more and more

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clearly being seen in Western capitals I

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see the new China as the antidote to

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some of the biggest problems that the

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world is facing today now a lot of

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people talk about the word fascism and

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fascism is back in a way and the form

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that it is taken is the zero-sum

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mentality and this isn't the fascism of

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the beer hall and it's not the fascism

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of marching soldiers

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00:14:04,390 --> 00:14:10,420
it's the fascism of a mentality that

278
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says in order for me to be rich you need

279
00:14:10,420 --> 00:14:16,209
to be poor in order for me to be secure

280
00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:18,790
you need to be destroyed in order for me

281
00:14:16,209 --> 00:14:21,970
to be impenetrable you need to be

282
00:14:18,790 --> 00:14:24,570
molested this zero-sum mentality which

283
00:14:21,970 --> 00:14:27,640
expresses itself in the fields of trade

284
00:14:24,570 --> 00:14:29,709
protectionism economics finance the

285
00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:31,779
all-important but too little discussed

286
00:14:29,709 --> 00:14:35,110
monetary policy and of course the

287
00:14:31,779 --> 00:14:37,510
ubiquitous military sector is very much

288
00:14:35,110 --> 00:14:39,820
at play in the world today now China

289
00:14:37,510 --> 00:14:42,970
proffers something that's the antithesis

290
00:14:39,820 --> 00:14:45,670
of the zero-sum mentality this is the

291
00:14:42,970 --> 00:14:48,490
win-win mentality which says if we're

292
00:14:45,670 --> 00:14:50,440
able to make a peaceful world and if

293
00:14:48,490 --> 00:14:53,079
this is something that collectively

294
00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:55,390
mankind should strive for there's got to

295
00:14:53,079 --> 00:14:58,240
be a solid and sustainable foundation

296
00:14:55,390 --> 00:15:01,149
this foundation is prosperity because

297
00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:03,190
when someone is poor there's usually an

298
00:15:01,149 --> 00:15:05,920
element of exploitation involved and

299
00:15:03,190 --> 00:15:09,250
inversely when one is prosperous there's

300
00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:11,470
usually a Placida T which sets in the

301
00:15:09,250 --> 00:15:14,980
ether and eventually is able to change

302
00:15:11,470 --> 00:15:16,810
the very enlightened spirituality if I

303
00:15:14,980 --> 00:15:19,120
can use that word of men and women and

304
00:15:16,810 --> 00:15:21,670
indeed of children this is the

305
00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:24,250
philosophical essence of vultan Road

306
00:15:21,670 --> 00:15:26,560
finally I should say there's no coercion

307
00:15:24,250 --> 00:15:29,050
involved which makes Pelton Road very

308
00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:31,120
different from the systems that were

309
00:15:29,050 --> 00:15:33,490
employed by the British Empire the

310
00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:35,500
American financial empire the wall

311
00:15:33,490 --> 00:15:37,329
street and City of London empires which

312
00:15:35,500 --> 00:15:39,010
answered to neither of the previous two

313
00:15:37,329 --> 00:15:41,589
it's the other way around in fact

314
00:15:39,010 --> 00:15:44,140
there's no coercion no political strings

315
00:15:41,589 --> 00:15:46,270
attached no military alliances it's

316
00:15:44,140 --> 00:15:48,700
merely about economic development and

317
00:15:46,270 --> 00:15:54,649
people-to-people development

318
00:15:48,700 --> 00:15:58,279
Java you you with your economist hat on

319
00:15:54,649 --> 00:16:03,200
an economist of note is that how you see

320
00:15:58,279 --> 00:16:06,170
it is it as entirely benign as Adam Gary

321
00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:08,720
thinks it is so our answer is no I think

322
00:16:06,170 --> 00:16:10,040
it's far more complicated than that so

323
00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,779
I'd like to say a few things about your

324
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:13,579
introduction first you and did not like

325
00:16:11,779 --> 00:16:16,579
to say a few things about the reality

326
00:16:13,579 --> 00:16:18,950
for me in you in your introduction I

327
00:16:16,579 --> 00:16:20,660
totally agree that China has become far

328
00:16:18,950 --> 00:16:22,490
more important in the world economy it

329
00:16:20,660 --> 00:16:25,160
should become more important it deserves

330
00:16:22,490 --> 00:16:27,320
to be given its its size in terms of

331
00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:29,300
population and economy as you said but

332
00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:32,170
it is not the world's largest economy is

333
00:16:29,300 --> 00:16:36,079
still the u.s. the u.s. is 18 trillion

334
00:16:32,170 --> 00:16:37,220
dollars a year China's around 11 or 12

335
00:16:36,079 --> 00:16:38,990
trillion it's only if you adjust for

336
00:16:37,220 --> 00:16:40,339
what we call purchasing power parity

337
00:16:38,990 --> 00:16:42,649
which is differences in inflation

338
00:16:40,339 --> 00:16:46,250
does China surpass the US but in terms

339
00:16:42,649 --> 00:16:48,230
of its its its its its economy the US is

340
00:16:46,250 --> 00:16:50,720
still by far the world's most important

341
00:16:48,230 --> 00:16:52,339
economy in that that has to be said and

342
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:54,560
China's population is large whether it's

343
00:16:52,339 --> 00:16:57,110
been rapidly caught by India for example

344
00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:58,760
it's it's a it's it's an important

345
00:16:57,110 --> 00:17:01,699
nation it should be regarded destruction

346
00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:05,089
should be taken seriously absolutely on

347
00:17:01,699 --> 00:17:07,790
its current built-in road initiative

348
00:17:05,089 --> 00:17:10,730
well it's about projecting its economic

349
00:17:07,790 --> 00:17:13,520
power it is about being able to get

350
00:17:10,730 --> 00:17:15,530
access to goods because it needs large

351
00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:17,480
amounts of imports of raw materials to

352
00:17:15,530 --> 00:17:19,640
fuel its growth but it's also about

353
00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:21,410
access to the markets for its goods and

354
00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:24,020
it's creating something which would

355
00:17:21,410 --> 00:17:26,290
benefit the countries that it is dealing

356
00:17:24,020 --> 00:17:28,910
with but also benefit it so it is about

357
00:17:26,290 --> 00:17:30,740
forming strong relationships but with

358
00:17:28,910 --> 00:17:32,630
those strong relationships will come

359
00:17:30,740 --> 00:17:34,400
more power it will have a say in what

360
00:17:32,630 --> 00:17:36,020
happens in those economies and you are

361
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:38,690
right to point to the fact that in

362
00:17:36,020 --> 00:17:40,730
Africa there are doubts about the

363
00:17:38,690 --> 00:17:42,740
pervasiveness of its power its

364
00:17:40,730 --> 00:17:44,809
relationships with some of the elites

365
00:17:42,740 --> 00:17:47,059
the quality of some of the work which is

366
00:17:44,809 --> 00:17:49,160
done for example some of the roads that

367
00:17:47,059 --> 00:17:51,260
you being built already falling apart it

368
00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:53,299
uses its own labor rather than employing

369
00:17:51,260 --> 00:17:54,740
locals it's about whether or not that

370
00:17:53,299 --> 00:17:56,840
money that it spends in those countries

371
00:17:54,740 --> 00:18:00,050
benefits those countries specifically or

372
00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:01,460
just gets benefits mainly to the Chinese

373
00:18:00,050 --> 00:18:03,200
so there are big

374
00:18:01,460 --> 00:18:05,809
and social issues which will come out of

375
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:08,059
this but that is the nature of the world

376
00:18:05,809 --> 00:18:09,799
it is also the nature of power by the

377
00:18:08,059 --> 00:18:11,120
way I do think that it is right to spend

378
00:18:09,799 --> 00:18:13,399
that money I do think it's a

379
00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:16,279
counterweight to some of the faults that

380
00:18:13,399 --> 00:18:18,440
the West has although I wouldn't paint

381
00:18:16,279 --> 00:18:19,640
the West as monolithic Gorge as you do

382
00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,289
because I think there are big

383
00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:23,690
differences between the US as its

384
00:18:21,289 --> 00:18:25,820
incarnated at the moment and was a few

385
00:18:23,690 --> 00:18:27,529
years ago and also between what Europe

386
00:18:25,820 --> 00:18:29,480
thinks about some of what's going on and

387
00:18:27,529 --> 00:18:31,549
what the US thinks about some some of

388
00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:33,320
what's going on so the world is far more

389
00:18:31,549 --> 00:18:35,840
nuanced and complex than just these

390
00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:37,700
sheer blocks that we talk about but I do

391
00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:40,880
think that China has a huge problem and

392
00:18:37,700 --> 00:18:44,419
the problem is it's not democratic how

393
00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:46,370
does it mutate into a democratic state

394
00:18:44,419 --> 00:18:48,559
where it's people ever say in how they

395
00:18:46,370 --> 00:18:50,870
govern at the moment it is totally

396
00:18:48,559 --> 00:18:52,940
driven by the fact that to legitimize

397
00:18:50,870 --> 00:18:55,970
the hold of the Communist Party in power

398
00:18:52,940 --> 00:18:58,880
in China it has to deliver ever higher

399
00:18:55,970 --> 00:19:00,409
levels of living standards and that is

400
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:03,500
it's imperative and I do think it's

401
00:19:00,409 --> 00:19:05,570
treating Eggers badly I do think that's

402
00:19:03,500 --> 00:19:08,299
the beginning of some sort of police

403
00:19:05,570 --> 00:19:10,970
state in that part of China but that

404
00:19:08,299 --> 00:19:13,220
part of the country is vitally important

405
00:19:10,970 --> 00:19:15,409
to it it's 40 percent of his energy so

406
00:19:13,220 --> 00:19:17,450
there's hard power realities that have

407
00:19:15,409 --> 00:19:19,010
to be taken into account as well and

408
00:19:17,450 --> 00:19:21,529
that's my preamble there's lots more to

409
00:19:19,010 --> 00:19:23,240
say you're gone as a as an introduction

410
00:19:21,529 --> 00:19:25,789
I think that maybe I should stop there

411
00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:26,840
and then maybe we can continue this as

412
00:19:25,789 --> 00:19:30,409
you please

413
00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:33,490
Adam Garrard the the picture there

414
00:19:30,409 --> 00:19:37,070
Trevor pate says is rather different to

415
00:19:33,490 --> 00:19:38,840
yours maybe you're right maybe he's

416
00:19:37,070 --> 00:19:41,480
right maybe the truth lies in between

417
00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:44,240
but how would you immediately respond

418
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:47,779
well I would say that managerial issues

419
00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:50,750
need to be separated from the overall

420
00:19:47,779 --> 00:19:52,760
aim when building any business when with

421
00:19:50,750 --> 00:19:54,440
building any country it would be more

422
00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:57,110
scandalous and more shocking if

423
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:59,240
everything went swimmingly without any

424
00:19:57,110 --> 00:20:01,730
supper without any surprises without any

425
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:04,490
shocks such a state doesn't exist on

426
00:20:01,730 --> 00:20:07,640
earth people are fallible and China as a

427
00:20:04,490 --> 00:20:09,529
very rational society based on the very

428
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:11,870
rational form of government that's

429
00:20:09,529 --> 00:20:14,450
existed from the time of dong Zhou Qing

430
00:20:11,870 --> 00:20:15,380
to the age of Xi Jinping thought is one

431
00:20:14,450 --> 00:20:18,230
that is willing

432
00:20:15,380 --> 00:20:20,510
to correspond and the A's with all of

433
00:20:18,230 --> 00:20:22,490
its partners if a road isn't built to

434
00:20:20,510 --> 00:20:24,260
scratch there will be dialogue and it

435
00:20:22,490 --> 00:20:26,600
will be rebuilt when the first

436
00:20:24,260 --> 00:20:28,640
generation of an infrastructural project

437
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:30,890
requires foreign workers the second and

438
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:33,230
third we'll see that balanced redressed

439
00:20:30,890 --> 00:20:35,900
we have to remember too that it's

440
00:20:33,230 --> 00:20:37,940
totally fallacious to hold China both

441
00:20:35,900 --> 00:20:40,130
internally and in terms of its

442
00:20:37,940 --> 00:20:42,920
developmental partnerships to the same

443
00:20:40,130 --> 00:20:45,050
standards to which one holds countries

444
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:48,170
that have achieved first world status

445
00:20:45,050 --> 00:20:51,830
after centuries of wars of genocide of

446
00:20:48,170 --> 00:20:54,320
holy wars of slavery and of all sorts of

447
00:20:51,830 --> 00:20:57,470
suffering that between 1949 and the

448
00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:59,600
present day hasn't existed in China so

449
00:20:57,470 --> 00:21:01,760
if we're going to compare records not

450
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:03,950
only has China developed quicker but

451
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:07,160
with the problems that are necessary in

452
00:21:03,950 --> 00:21:09,380
all developing societies I think China's

453
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:11,300
record frankly is a lot better than some

454
00:21:09,380 --> 00:21:12,970
of the countries which today are part of

455
00:21:11,300 --> 00:21:15,710
the first world which China as China

456
00:21:12,970 --> 00:21:20,060
itself says is not yet part of the first

457
00:21:15,710 --> 00:21:24,490
world while China was of course occupied

458
00:21:20,060 --> 00:21:28,450
by the first world it was sacked

459
00:21:24,490 --> 00:21:34,250
exploited invaded literally occupied

460
00:21:28,450 --> 00:21:39,220
with sovereignty asserted Great Britain

461
00:21:34,250 --> 00:21:43,550
in the last hundred and twenty years

462
00:21:39,220 --> 00:21:46,840
literally took parts of China and said

463
00:21:43,550 --> 00:21:51,350
that's no longer China it's Britain

464
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:56,030
Britain bombarded China to force China

465
00:21:51,350 --> 00:22:02,900
to accept heroine from our Empire in

466
00:21:56,030 --> 00:22:06,770
India and that kind of criminal rape

467
00:22:02,900 --> 00:22:09,770
actually of China is not a distant

468
00:22:06,770 --> 00:22:14,750
memory the Chinese People's Republic

469
00:22:09,770 --> 00:22:17,090
only came into being in the lifetime of

470
00:22:14,750 --> 00:22:23,590
some people actually watching this

471
00:22:17,090 --> 00:22:27,540
program there was a period of ultra-left

472
00:22:23,590 --> 00:22:31,010
politics in China which at

473
00:22:27,540 --> 00:22:33,720
some games made many mistakes

474
00:22:31,010 --> 00:22:37,860
the modern China were actually talking

475
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:40,650
about here now it's only what's the dong

476
00:22:37,860 --> 00:22:45,300
shopping period where we're talking 40

477
00:22:40,650 --> 00:22:48,870
years so in 40 years China has emerged

478
00:22:45,300 --> 00:22:53,700
in the shape it's in now and should be

479
00:22:48,870 --> 00:22:55,920
judged accordingly now do you want to

480
00:22:53,700 --> 00:22:59,220
quickly respond I think what we have to

481
00:22:55,920 --> 00:23:01,770
agree is that democracy is not for every

482
00:22:59,220 --> 00:23:04,830
country the Chinese economy has been

483
00:23:01,770 --> 00:23:07,110
able to develop you know aside from the

484
00:23:04,830 --> 00:23:08,640
type of democracy that we expect you

485
00:23:07,110 --> 00:23:09,870
know what to happen in China that

486
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:12,060
happens in the West you know I've just

487
00:23:09,870 --> 00:23:14,160
been to China a couple of months ago and

488
00:23:12,060 --> 00:23:16,980
you can tell that of course there are

489
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:18,660
you know the social media is rex treated

490
00:23:16,980 --> 00:23:22,020
you know but when you meet the people in

491
00:23:18,660 --> 00:23:23,430
china they don't express any some any

492
00:23:22,020 --> 00:23:26,040
any sort of you know oppressed

493
00:23:23,430 --> 00:23:28,170
oppression style regime that you know

494
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:30,090
the west always paints that to be so I

495
00:23:28,170 --> 00:23:33,180
don't think democracy is you know the

496
00:23:30,090 --> 00:23:35,640
level of judgment that we can use to

497
00:23:33,180 --> 00:23:37,290
characterize you know how well a nation

498
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:39,480
is doing but of course if you want to

499
00:23:37,290 --> 00:23:41,430
talk about democracy is a system where

500
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:43,830
the majority rules over the minority so

501
00:23:41,430 --> 00:23:45,810
if you know you go to China you would

502
00:23:43,830 --> 00:23:47,640
find that the majority are happy the

503
00:23:45,810 --> 00:23:49,620
minority may not be happy so it's still

504
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:53,010
the same system of government that runs

505
00:23:49,620 --> 00:23:56,429
much more coming up after this

506
00:23:53,010 --> 00:23:57,080
[Applause]

507
00:23:56,429 --> 00:23:58,320
you

508
00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:06,519
[Applause]

509
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:09,200
[Music]

510
00:24:06,519 --> 00:24:11,269
you're watching calamara with me George

511
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:14,299
Galloway on are my team talking about

512
00:24:11,269 --> 00:24:17,299
China earlier we took the kalam ahora

513
00:24:14,299 --> 00:24:18,440
camera onto the streets of London to see

514
00:24:17,299 --> 00:24:20,619
what the people thought let's take a

515
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:20,619
look

516
00:24:25,330 --> 00:24:31,070
what do you know about the Chinese new

517
00:24:27,740 --> 00:24:33,980
Silk Road I'm sorry I don't know

518
00:24:31,070 --> 00:24:36,410
anything about that I didn't know about

519
00:24:33,980 --> 00:24:37,880
that I don't really know enough about it

520
00:24:36,410 --> 00:24:46,420
to be able to see anything meaningful

521
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:46,420
about it to be honest so sorry oh well

522
00:24:50,290 --> 00:24:58,360
I'd never heard about it so is it true I

523
00:24:58,750 --> 00:25:07,700
just heard about Silk Road the China

524
00:25:03,260 --> 00:25:10,000
wanted to expand their strength maybe

525
00:25:07,700 --> 00:25:13,280
it's a way of protecting themselves or

526
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:16,400
expanding their commercial link with

527
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:19,160
more countries making sure that the more

528
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:23,570
trade they can do the better it will be

529
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:25,280
for their economy and money it's

530
00:25:23,570 --> 00:25:29,240
basically a road that they using to

531
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:34,160
connect the world and you know which by

532
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:37,220
sea or land and which I honestly don't

533
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:39,980
support because I own it

534
00:25:37,220 --> 00:25:42,760
I think is gonna cause more pollution

535
00:25:39,980 --> 00:25:47,260
that the world already has dinner with I

536
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:49,460
believe it's gonna be made in 2049

537
00:25:47,260 --> 00:25:51,650
they're trying to build some sort of

538
00:25:49,460 --> 00:25:53,810
connection between China and other

539
00:25:51,650 --> 00:25:56,960
countries such as Pakistan Sri Lanka and

540
00:25:53,810 --> 00:25:59,240
other countries as well in order for

541
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:01,300
like strong trade and travel and stuff I

542
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,300
think

543
00:26:02,360 --> 00:26:08,090
will the New Silk Road only benefit

544
00:26:04,980 --> 00:26:13,500
China or the whole world in case of

545
00:26:08,090 --> 00:26:16,590
Norton path its benefits only China

546
00:26:13,500 --> 00:26:20,220
because they are planning to make drain

547
00:26:16,590 --> 00:26:23,490
connection to Nazi to Helsinki and make

548
00:26:20,220 --> 00:26:28,230
the tunnel to Tallinn and then go in the

549
00:26:23,490 --> 00:26:32,299
middle of Europe and it's kind of awful

550
00:26:28,230 --> 00:26:35,100
dominant thing - next hundred years I

551
00:26:32,299 --> 00:26:37,980
feel I would definitely be a positive

552
00:26:35,100 --> 00:26:41,340
advantage to countries so not just to

553
00:26:37,980 --> 00:26:43,620
China I'd be a advantage impacts - Lanka

554
00:26:41,340 --> 00:26:46,289
and the other countries definitely in

555
00:26:43,620 --> 00:26:49,919
terms of stock trade as well as travel

556
00:26:46,289 --> 00:26:51,720
maybe as well so yeah definitely a

557
00:26:49,919 --> 00:26:54,169
advantage to other countries not just

558
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,169
China

559
00:26:55,270 --> 00:27:01,370
why do you think the u.s. opposes the

560
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:04,580
New Silk Road it could be in terms of

561
00:27:01,370 --> 00:27:06,650
maybe feeding a threat as well as not

562
00:27:04,580 --> 00:27:09,920
having control over what's happening

563
00:27:06,650 --> 00:27:11,870
there in terms of like travel maybe and

564
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,490
stock trade and stuff like that but

565
00:27:11,870 --> 00:27:15,380
definitely a big threat maybe I would

566
00:27:13,490 --> 00:27:18,260
say as they don't feel that they would

567
00:27:15,380 --> 00:27:21,410
be in control as much I think it's

568
00:27:18,260 --> 00:27:24,710
because of the economic power that they

569
00:27:21,410 --> 00:27:26,960
believe if China gets this it's going to

570
00:27:24,710 --> 00:27:29,770
be an upper hand and the u.s. in general

571
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:32,819
they like to be in charge of everything

572
00:27:29,770 --> 00:27:32,819
[Music]

573
00:27:37,660 --> 00:27:42,429
well I think China needs to invest a

574
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:45,730
little bit in its public relations

575
00:27:42,429 --> 00:27:47,770
because not many people know about the

576
00:27:45,730 --> 00:27:50,039
subject that we're talking about madam

577
00:27:47,770 --> 00:27:52,510
you had a question

578
00:27:50,039 --> 00:27:54,880
I don't know how relevant this is but

579
00:27:52,510 --> 00:27:56,470
I'm earlier you spoke about the IMF and

580
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:59,080
the infantryman obviously the world

581
00:27:56,470 --> 00:27:59,980
regulated Bank do you think about it did

582
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,870
you think that holds a certain

583
00:27:59,980 --> 00:28:03,700
responsibility that they're ignoring in

584
00:28:01,870 --> 00:28:05,890
this particular on this particular

585
00:28:03,700 --> 00:28:11,159
subject well I think the balance is

586
00:28:05,890 --> 00:28:13,690
shifting the Asian financial development

587
00:28:11,159 --> 00:28:16,030
infrastructure is becoming far more

588
00:28:13,690 --> 00:28:18,460
important than the IMF and the World

589
00:28:16,030 --> 00:28:18,820
Bank as the political balance in the

590
00:28:18,460 --> 00:28:22,570
world

591
00:28:18,820 --> 00:28:24,539
shifts and there's no doubt what the IMF

592
00:28:22,570 --> 00:28:27,760
and the World Bank do with their money

593
00:28:24,539 --> 00:28:35,049
they bludgeoned the countries that they

594
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:38,710
lend to into absolute surrender to their

595
00:28:35,049 --> 00:28:41,020
prevailing economic and political modes

596
00:28:38,710 --> 00:28:45,100
in a way which actually the Asian

597
00:28:41,020 --> 00:28:49,600
Development Bank's don't do so we're not

598
00:28:45,100 --> 00:28:54,039
comparing China's approach to these

599
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:56,860
matters with a group of saints you know

600
00:28:54,039 --> 00:29:00,400
this is the the IMF and the World Bank I

601
00:28:56,860 --> 00:29:04,000
would argue are international criminals

602
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:08,260
over the last 50 years in the way that

603
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:12,940
they have destroyed any possibility of a

604
00:29:08,260 --> 00:29:15,789
fair a balanced adjust international

605
00:29:12,940 --> 00:29:17,350
order in poor countries that's my own

606
00:29:15,789 --> 00:29:20,470
view don't have to accept it let's take

607
00:29:17,350 --> 00:29:22,870
the gentleman in the middle yes sir

608
00:29:20,470 --> 00:29:25,390
yes my name is Russ me in the orange one

609
00:29:22,870 --> 00:29:28,179
I just want to ask the question after

610
00:29:25,390 --> 00:29:31,179
listen all the gentlemen would say and

611
00:29:28,179 --> 00:29:33,820
you also and then we come to the

612
00:29:31,179 --> 00:29:36,520
conclusion this one bill and one road is

613
00:29:33,820 --> 00:29:40,750
a good initiative that it will progress

614
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:45,070
in the world but when they come to the

615
00:29:40,750 --> 00:29:46,260
politic part of will I just want to know

616
00:29:45,070 --> 00:29:50,530
whether you can answer this question

617
00:29:46,260 --> 00:29:51,550
between the ways is try to holding or

618
00:29:50,530 --> 00:29:56,820
derail this

619
00:29:51,550 --> 00:30:02,050
project easily the incident in Indonesia

620
00:29:56,820 --> 00:30:06,010
in Philippine in New Zealand and in sea

621
00:30:02,050 --> 00:30:09,520
Lanka is help any connect to this

622
00:30:06,010 --> 00:30:14,200
project well some Isis some are nodding

623
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:17,320
I don't myself think so but I wouldn't I

624
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:20,950
wouldn't put it past those that are

625
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:24,700
threatened by China's rise to do

626
00:30:20,950 --> 00:30:28,270
anything at all to try and stop it to go

627
00:30:24,700 --> 00:30:32,470
back to a point I made earlier I was

628
00:30:28,270 --> 00:30:36,310
there working with the Saudi opposition

629
00:30:32,470 --> 00:30:43,900
in London when they were openly

630
00:30:36,310 --> 00:30:48,670
discussing using the genuine real Muslim

631
00:30:43,900 --> 00:30:49,120
question in China as a means of dividing

632
00:30:48,670 --> 00:30:53,310
China

633
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:57,160
what is China's main asset it's United

634
00:30:53,310 --> 00:30:59,620
population so if you are US imperialism

635
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:01,590
what do you want to do you you want to

636
00:30:59,620 --> 00:31:07,090
break China up you want to make it less

637
00:31:01,590 --> 00:31:09,220
United less powerful at the center my

638
00:31:07,090 --> 00:31:12,190
difference with the Chinese government

639
00:31:09,220 --> 00:31:15,310
is some of the things that they are

640
00:31:12,190 --> 00:31:17,800
doing on the Muslim question are

641
00:31:15,310 --> 00:31:22,150
actually making division and breakup

642
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:23,950
more likely not less likely and so far

643
00:31:22,150 --> 00:31:25,420
they're not listening to me quiet

644
00:31:23,950 --> 00:31:28,120
I think the judgement is referring to

645
00:31:25,420 --> 00:31:30,550
issues of terrorism attack terrorist

646
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:33,730
attack one thing which China has done

647
00:31:30,550 --> 00:31:36,400
very well is to be if not neutral

648
00:31:33,730 --> 00:31:38,860
they've avoided involving themselves in

649
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:40,930
in matters that concern you not with

650
00:31:38,860 --> 00:31:42,760
with politics you know what interfering

651
00:31:40,930 --> 00:31:44,500
in politics with different countries so

652
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:47,590
I think you know they've done very well

653
00:31:44,500 --> 00:31:49,690
in that but again as you know we all

654
00:31:47,590 --> 00:31:51,370
know one of the things that the you know

655
00:31:49,690 --> 00:31:54,700
the big States the US and all that are

656
00:31:51,370 --> 00:31:57,910
trying to put forward is this idea that

657
00:31:54,700 --> 00:32:00,700
you know you know if they destabilize

658
00:31:57,910 --> 00:32:03,820
the internal security of China then it

659
00:32:00,700 --> 00:32:05,320
literally you know you know makes them

660
00:32:03,820 --> 00:32:06,610
to be unable to

661
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:08,470
completely you know their economic

662
00:32:06,610 --> 00:32:10,330
prowess but that is one thing which

663
00:32:08,470 --> 00:32:12,600
China needs to work on because if you're

664
00:32:10,330 --> 00:32:15,340
building this kind of extensive networks

665
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:18,340
all these straight routes you have to be

666
00:32:15,340 --> 00:32:20,830
able to have the security architectures

667
00:32:18,340 --> 00:32:23,110
in a workplace because again those are

668
00:32:20,830 --> 00:32:25,600
security threats so I think the the US

669
00:32:23,110 --> 00:32:27,340
may have a case in terms of keeping an

670
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:29,530
eye on these infrastructural

671
00:32:27,340 --> 00:32:32,260
developments because it poses and a

672
00:32:29,530 --> 00:32:34,360
critical infrastructure trade Trevor can

673
00:32:32,260 --> 00:32:36,250
I just say two major things I think I

674
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:38,590
think it's absolutely wrong to argue

675
00:32:36,250 --> 00:32:42,160
that democracy is not a good thing it is

676
00:32:38,590 --> 00:32:44,230
not the suppression of the minority by

677
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,700
the majority at all democracy is far

678
00:32:44,230 --> 00:32:48,160
more than that it's about listening to

679
00:32:45,700 --> 00:32:52,630
views and taking account of their views

680
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:54,790
it is not a win-win situation just for

681
00:32:52,630 --> 00:32:57,670
those who vote most in a certain

682
00:32:54,790 --> 00:32:59,500
circumstances I think that it's totally

683
00:32:57,670 --> 00:33:00,340
wrong to argue that for any country in

684
00:32:59,500 --> 00:33:01,780
the world that they shouldn't be

685
00:33:00,340 --> 00:33:02,860
democratic and somewhere it's good for

686
00:33:01,780 --> 00:33:04,480
them that they have these people you

687
00:33:02,860 --> 00:33:07,420
don't think that's what happens in

688
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:09,130
democratic countries I mean it's very

689
00:33:07,420 --> 00:33:10,810
nuanced George I think it's a very

690
00:33:09,130 --> 00:33:12,160
nuanced situation but we must be careful

691
00:33:10,810 --> 00:33:18,910
here that we're not arguing for

692
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:21,100
dictatorships I know run it in the way

693
00:33:18,910 --> 00:33:22,810
that suits them but main point though if

694
00:33:21,100 --> 00:33:24,700
I just go on I mean I think that's a

695
00:33:22,810 --> 00:33:26,530
different debate about what is democracy

696
00:33:24,700 --> 00:33:28,330
and how does it work and what democratic

697
00:33:26,530 --> 00:33:30,190
institutions and it's about named able

698
00:33:28,330 --> 00:33:32,020
to change the state the nature of the

699
00:33:30,190 --> 00:33:33,790
Chinese state under the current

700
00:33:32,020 --> 00:33:35,980
leadership is different from the one and

701
00:33:33,790 --> 00:33:38,200
the down shopping it's it's a point it's

702
00:33:35,980 --> 00:33:40,750
a fact he's now made himself virtually

703
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:42,040
unseeable and that's a bad thing for

704
00:33:40,750 --> 00:33:44,260
China and I think that will lead to a

705
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:46,330
proliferation of mistakes in future if

706
00:33:44,260 --> 00:33:48,700
things don't go right but that's that's

707
00:33:46,330 --> 00:33:50,170
the best my own view on this Elizabeth

708
00:33:48,700 --> 00:33:53,050
just Park that for a moment because as I

709
00:33:50,170 --> 00:33:54,340
said I'm fundamental a Liberal Democrat

710
00:33:53,050 --> 00:33:56,320
and I believe that people should have

711
00:33:54,340 --> 00:34:00,460
the right to remove their leaders rules

712
00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:02,290
all stratas of power and I really think

713
00:34:00,460 --> 00:34:05,230
that it's it's disgusting that we argue

714
00:34:02,290 --> 00:34:08,050
that it's not the case the world has

715
00:34:05,230 --> 00:34:11,350
moved on from the past I also totally

716
00:34:08,050 --> 00:34:13,540
agree that there's the the US and

717
00:34:11,350 --> 00:34:14,620
Britain and the colonial powers of

718
00:34:13,540 --> 00:34:19,200
course what they did was disgusting

719
00:34:14,620 --> 00:34:21,510
however where we are and the your what

720
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:24,149
missing in this debate so far China's

721
00:34:21,510 --> 00:34:27,300
rise has not been somehow at the expense

722
00:34:24,149 --> 00:34:29,609
of other countries true but you must

723
00:34:27,300 --> 00:34:33,419
also recognize that it's because it was

724
00:34:29,609 --> 00:34:36,060
allowed to join the world trading system

725
00:34:33,419 --> 00:34:37,740
that countries such as the US and the

726
00:34:36,060 --> 00:34:40,770
AdWords lasts economies were willing to

727
00:34:37,740 --> 00:34:43,589
buy their goods and allow them to invest

728
00:34:40,770 --> 00:34:45,869
in China so that their goods could be

729
00:34:43,589 --> 00:34:47,700
produced there too the enrichment of

730
00:34:45,869 --> 00:34:50,669
China they transfer technology they

731
00:34:47,700 --> 00:34:52,320
allowed this growth to take place now on

732
00:34:50,669 --> 00:34:54,659
the one hand of course there are other

733
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:56,849
aspects to its security aspects there

734
00:34:54,659 --> 00:34:58,650
are the things that has been pointed to

735
00:34:56,849 --> 00:35:00,720
about some of the pushback against

736
00:34:58,650 --> 00:35:02,339
China's dominance and so forth in some

737
00:35:00,720 --> 00:35:04,829
parts and the willing and unwillingness

738
00:35:02,339 --> 00:35:07,560
maybe to fully accept the ramifications

739
00:35:04,829 --> 00:35:09,839
of the rise of a country as large and

740
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:12,530
important as China undoubtedly is

741
00:35:09,839 --> 00:35:15,960
however you guys must recognize that

742
00:35:12,530 --> 00:35:19,770
than shopping open China to the world

743
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:22,020
the world embraced China they allowed it

744
00:35:19,770 --> 00:35:24,150
to get as rich as it possibly could

745
00:35:22,020 --> 00:35:27,240
through trading openly with the rest of

746
00:35:24,150 --> 00:35:29,910
the world that is why it is as rich as

747
00:35:27,240 --> 00:35:32,130
it is today and I think that we are and

748
00:35:29,910 --> 00:35:34,410
the audience will misunderstand the rise

749
00:35:32,130 --> 00:35:37,050
of China they do not know that this is

750
00:35:34,410 --> 00:35:39,900
the case but capitalism doesn't care

751
00:35:37,050 --> 00:35:42,450
about political systems does it

752
00:35:39,900 --> 00:35:45,720
otherwise we wouldn't be trading so

753
00:35:42,450 --> 00:35:48,359
gaily with Saudi Arabia for example if

754
00:35:45,720 --> 00:35:54,240
you want to talk about democracy and

755
00:35:48,359 --> 00:35:56,430
human rights we buy and sell to Saudi

756
00:35:54,240 --> 00:35:58,589
Arabia however many people's heads it

757
00:35:56,430 --> 00:36:01,800
cuts off in public on a Friday afternoon

758
00:35:58,589 --> 00:36:03,750
however many people that crucifies that

759
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:06,030
is absolutely true but at the same time

760
00:36:03,750 --> 00:36:08,670
your trades with countries capitalism

761
00:36:06,030 --> 00:36:13,319
can be an ideology for some but I'm not

762
00:36:08,670 --> 00:36:15,530
talking about capitalism George the

763
00:36:13,319 --> 00:36:19,349
market good China is a market economy

764
00:36:15,530 --> 00:36:21,599
but it is not capitalist it remains a

765
00:36:19,349 --> 00:36:24,420
socialist and communist run country

766
00:36:21,599 --> 00:36:27,630
using the market economy to enrich its

767
00:36:24,420 --> 00:36:30,180
citizens you can do both Saudi Arabia is

768
00:36:27,630 --> 00:36:32,079
a market economy but is this also a

769
00:36:30,180 --> 00:36:34,869
feudal system

770
00:36:32,079 --> 00:36:37,119
by a kleptocracy a brutal one

771
00:36:34,869 --> 00:36:39,789
undoubtedly with strong links to certain

772
00:36:37,119 --> 00:36:41,949
elements of the u.s. true no question

773
00:36:39,789 --> 00:36:44,349
but at the same time George that country

774
00:36:41,949 --> 00:36:46,449
will trade the US this is with other

775
00:36:44,349 --> 00:36:48,309
countries who are benign who don't do

776
00:36:46,449 --> 00:36:51,429
these things this is the world we live

777
00:36:48,309 --> 00:36:54,130
in it can be good and bad this is this

778
00:36:51,429 --> 00:36:56,439
is the nuance that there is they don't

779
00:36:54,130 --> 00:36:58,479
necessarily choose to trade with

780
00:36:56,439 --> 00:36:59,949
countries that are as evil as that

781
00:36:58,479 --> 00:37:02,019
regime and I agree this is totally an

782
00:36:59,949 --> 00:37:03,999
evil regime and I wish they would stand

783
00:37:02,019 --> 00:37:05,890
against it but their vested interest

784
00:37:03,999 --> 00:37:09,039
there but our vested interests elsewhere

785
00:37:05,890 --> 00:37:10,809
- my point is this ultimately China -

786
00:37:09,039 --> 00:37:13,449
will have vested interests

787
00:37:10,809 --> 00:37:16,119
once it builds this this belton Road

788
00:37:13,449 --> 00:37:18,249
once it has assets in these places it

789
00:37:16,119 --> 00:37:20,049
will have to defend these assets it will

790
00:37:18,249 --> 00:37:22,390
have to take positions on the power

791
00:37:20,049 --> 00:37:24,519
structures in these countries that those

792
00:37:22,390 --> 00:37:26,439
relationships will change over time

793
00:37:24,519 --> 00:37:28,779
that's the point I'd like to make about

794
00:37:26,439 --> 00:37:30,759
the future for China given this

795
00:37:28,779 --> 00:37:33,219
initiative which as I said will benefit

796
00:37:30,759 --> 00:37:35,559
it primarily but it can also benefit

797
00:37:33,219 --> 00:37:37,869
those countries depending on how they

798
00:37:35,559 --> 00:37:40,059
respond to it and if they do not respond

799
00:37:37,869 --> 00:37:42,429
in a way which benefits their people and

800
00:37:40,059 --> 00:37:45,130
their economy then it won't benefit them

801
00:37:42,429 --> 00:37:48,009
at all it will benefit a kleptocracy a

802
00:37:45,130 --> 00:37:50,079
group at the top who will get all of the

803
00:37:48,009 --> 00:37:53,109
benefits and keep it for themselves and

804
00:37:50,079 --> 00:37:55,059
that appens when their undemocratic

805
00:37:53,109 --> 00:37:57,009
let's take the gentleman behind you my

806
00:37:55,059 --> 00:37:59,229
name is Musa and as we can see with

807
00:37:57,009 --> 00:38:03,130
China this is a very ambitious move so

808
00:37:59,229 --> 00:38:05,199
of course isn't gonna be in ads or USA

809
00:38:03,130 --> 00:38:09,400
as a move of you're trying to step a bit

810
00:38:05,199 --> 00:38:11,289
further than you can reach so China in

811
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:13,439
the long term are gonna have to build

812
00:38:11,289 --> 00:38:15,699
strong relationships in Africa and

813
00:38:13,439 --> 00:38:18,459
through the roads and what now it might

814
00:38:15,699 --> 00:38:20,289
look good to us in the West but every

815
00:38:18,459 --> 00:38:22,900
country needs more infrastructure every

816
00:38:20,289 --> 00:38:24,910
country needs to progress and USA just

817
00:38:22,900 --> 00:38:27,219
like to stay ahead and keep everyone

818
00:38:24,910 --> 00:38:28,719
under their shackles so in the long term

819
00:38:27,219 --> 00:38:31,269
of course it's gonna be a good thing

820
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:32,920
overall for the majority of the world as

821
00:38:31,269 --> 00:38:35,349
you if you're looking at as a whole and

822
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:38,709
not just singly then it would be more of

823
00:38:35,349 --> 00:38:40,959
a beneficial thing gentlemen at the

824
00:38:38,709 --> 00:38:42,609
front for a huge I'm an independent

825
00:38:40,959 --> 00:38:44,469
activist from Belfast

826
00:38:42,609 --> 00:38:46,050
I just wanted to make a comment that the

827
00:38:44,469 --> 00:38:48,210
only thing you can see from Spears

828
00:38:46,050 --> 00:38:51,390
a Great Wall of China and I think that's

829
00:38:48,210 --> 00:38:53,700
a huge engineering fit that that's that

830
00:38:51,390 --> 00:38:56,670
hasn't been surpassed and I think that

831
00:38:53,700 --> 00:38:58,410
this belt and Road initiative no matter

832
00:38:56,670 --> 00:39:00,570
how long it takes even if it's decades

833
00:38:58,410 --> 00:39:03,240
in the making it's going to open up the

834
00:39:00,570 --> 00:39:05,490
whole world from the east through

835
00:39:03,240 --> 00:39:07,770
Eurasia all the way to the West they're

836
00:39:05,490 --> 00:39:10,190
talking about delivering things patreon

837
00:39:07,770 --> 00:39:13,260
from China to London within two weeks

838
00:39:10,190 --> 00:39:14,880
every single country that it goes

839
00:39:13,260 --> 00:39:17,660
through building the infrastructure the

840
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:20,880
ports and the bridges and the trends and

841
00:39:17,660 --> 00:39:22,560
the road networks will allow every one

842
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:25,170
of those countries the opportunity to

843
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:27,570
expand its economy to use the porch that

844
00:39:25,170 --> 00:39:30,870
the Chinese are building but also China

845
00:39:27,570 --> 00:39:32,940
is investing like between 1 trillion and

846
00:39:30,870 --> 00:39:34,710
3 trillion dollars to make this a

847
00:39:32,940 --> 00:39:37,050
reality now I realize that they're also

848
00:39:34,710 --> 00:39:39,690
giving loans to a lot of the companies

849
00:39:37,050 --> 00:39:41,100
in Africa and along this new belton rude

850
00:39:39,690 --> 00:39:43,560
that they're developing and that may

851
00:39:41,100 --> 00:39:45,660
cause issues and we're gonna have money

852
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,830
can't pay the loans back well yes and

853
00:39:45,660 --> 00:39:48,180
this has already happened isn't it

854
00:39:46,830 --> 00:39:50,400
somewhere would have taken over a port

855
00:39:48,180 --> 00:39:53,100
and they said Sri Lanka and and one of

856
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:54,540
the countries but just Canada finish a I

857
00:39:53,100 --> 00:39:57,300
think it's a fantastic opportunity I

858
00:39:54,540 --> 00:39:58,380
think going forward it's already been

859
00:39:57,300 --> 00:40:00,660
saying I totally agree with everything

860
00:39:58,380 --> 00:40:04,830
you see it the cooperation between China

861
00:40:00,660 --> 00:40:06,900
is a financial it's a financial

862
00:40:04,830 --> 00:40:09,300
imperialism in a way where it's gonna

863
00:40:06,900 --> 00:40:11,250
have influence and all the countries

864
00:40:09,300 --> 00:40:14,550
that it goes through financially through

865
00:40:11,250 --> 00:40:17,340
the pelton Road project but it's also

866
00:40:14,550 --> 00:40:20,970
it's not the imperialist way of the West

867
00:40:17,340 --> 00:40:24,260
which three regime change and fermenting

868
00:40:20,970 --> 00:40:27,930
tourism and bombing other countries into

869
00:40:24,260 --> 00:40:31,260
subjection so I just really want to say

870
00:40:27,930 --> 00:40:33,350
about the yuan at some stage a lot of

871
00:40:31,260 --> 00:40:36,270
people protect the yuan become the world

872
00:40:33,350 --> 00:40:38,250
reserve currency and I think when that

873
00:40:36,270 --> 00:40:40,680
happens then America is going to be more

874
00:40:38,250 --> 00:40:44,340
frightened of China than it is up to

875
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:47,010
this moment saying yes most of us

876
00:40:44,340 --> 00:40:49,530
broadcast journalist one thing I have to

877
00:40:47,010 --> 00:40:50,730
do as a journalist sometimes is to look

878
00:40:49,530 --> 00:40:53,760
into the future crystal ball gazing

879
00:40:50,730 --> 00:40:55,650
really if China is going to be emerging

880
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:57,570
economic power of the future with

881
00:40:55,650 --> 00:40:58,250
America not far behind I can't see it

882
00:40:57,570 --> 00:41:02,490
collapse

883
00:40:58,250 --> 00:41:04,829
overnight some of them futuristic if you

884
00:41:02,490 --> 00:41:07,349
like technologies are really important

885
00:41:04,829 --> 00:41:09,809
to consider in terms of their political

886
00:41:07,349 --> 00:41:11,609
and ethical and moral if you like

887
00:41:09,809 --> 00:41:12,990
overviews let's take nanotechnology

888
00:41:11,609 --> 00:41:13,619
let's take for instance robotic

889
00:41:12,990 --> 00:41:16,799
engineering

890
00:41:13,619 --> 00:41:21,059
let's take I don't know anything which

891
00:41:16,799 --> 00:41:23,940
is to do with basically shaping the

892
00:41:21,059 --> 00:41:25,710
future of the world with the Chinese

893
00:41:23,940 --> 00:41:27,390
system one of the concerns would be if

894
00:41:25,710 --> 00:41:30,029
you have a totalitarian state where

895
00:41:27,390 --> 00:41:31,799
these decisions are made behind closed

896
00:41:30,029 --> 00:41:33,660
doors and you don't have the ethical and

897
00:41:31,799 --> 00:41:35,670
moral robust kind of decision-making

898
00:41:33,660 --> 00:41:39,119
that would be concerned the problem is

899
00:41:35,670 --> 00:41:41,640
though with most of these most of these

900
00:41:39,119 --> 00:41:44,220
technologies and most of the investors

901
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:45,420
within in the background there primarily

902
00:41:44,220 --> 00:41:48,930
after profit

903
00:41:45,420 --> 00:41:50,549
so if profit an economy is driving all

904
00:41:48,930 --> 00:41:52,319
of these processes then consumer

905
00:41:50,549 --> 00:41:54,660
producer relations the way we're going

906
00:41:52,319 --> 00:41:56,670
to deal with our future our populations

907
00:41:54,660 --> 00:41:58,769
how how we're going to interact is an

908
00:41:56,670 --> 00:42:00,089
area which I think that of course we all

909
00:41:58,769 --> 00:42:03,000
need to be concerned about particularly

910
00:42:00,089 --> 00:42:04,829
though the Chinese because what is their

911
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:07,710
what is their sort of cultural or moral

912
00:42:04,829 --> 00:42:09,359
kind of outlook to such issues where do

913
00:42:07,710 --> 00:42:10,740
they go in terms of their leadership or

914
00:42:09,359 --> 00:42:11,940
will they will they just operate

915
00:42:10,740 --> 00:42:14,670
according to the transnational

916
00:42:11,940 --> 00:42:17,460
corporations whim on these issues more

917
00:42:14,670 --> 00:42:19,380
so than perhaps even the West was doing

918
00:42:17,460 --> 00:42:21,000
these are questions in my mind about how

919
00:42:19,380 --> 00:42:22,950
will they deal with I'm glad to measure

920
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:28,170
that last point because that's exactly

921
00:42:22,950 --> 00:42:30,750
what United States dominant capitalist

922
00:42:28,170 --> 00:42:33,630
mode does me you can elect the dog

923
00:42:30,750 --> 00:42:36,990
catcher in the United States you can

924
00:42:33,630 --> 00:42:39,240
elect the the traffic cop

925
00:42:36,990 --> 00:42:42,180
you can Al you can elect everybody but

926
00:42:39,240 --> 00:42:45,869
what difference does it make Donald

927
00:42:42,180 --> 00:42:46,970
Trump's the president he lost the

928
00:42:45,869 --> 00:42:50,849
election

929
00:42:46,970 --> 00:42:52,410
you can only stand for president with a

930
00:42:50,849 --> 00:42:55,980
chance of winning if you've got a

931
00:42:52,410 --> 00:42:57,750
billion dollars to spend and nothing

932
00:42:55,980 --> 00:43:01,799
changes what's the difference between

933
00:42:57,750 --> 00:43:04,680
Bill Clinton Barack Obama Donald Trump

934
00:43:01,799 --> 00:43:08,009
to what extent is this democracy of

935
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:11,520
which you speak of any importance to the

936
00:43:08,009 --> 00:43:12,960
mass of the people in the United States

937
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:16,410
thirty-five million people in United

938
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:18,240
States have no healthcare cover 50

939
00:43:16,410 --> 00:43:22,940
million people in the United States

940
00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:26,040
could not survive a $1,000 emergency so

941
00:43:22,940 --> 00:43:29,220
if you've got a system like the Chinese

942
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:34,020
system which is not democratic according

943
00:43:29,220 --> 00:43:36,000
to our definition of democratic but

944
00:43:34,020 --> 00:43:38,100
everyone's getting richer and richer and

945
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:44,690
the public realm is getting better and

946
00:43:38,100 --> 00:43:46,980
better which is best I think ultimately

947
00:43:44,690 --> 00:43:49,800
I'm with you on this with social justice

948
00:43:46,980 --> 00:43:51,600
and being able to define what that

949
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:53,430
future is at the moment seems to be

950
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:55,860
still locked in this kind of paradigm of

951
00:43:53,430 --> 00:43:58,700
growth economic growth we seem to be

952
00:43:55,860 --> 00:44:01,560
obsessed with growth as if it said in in

953
00:43:58,700 --> 00:44:03,870
untouchable reality of our times growth

954
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:05,640
is not a absolute reality this is a

955
00:44:03,870 --> 00:44:07,830
reality which usura shmoney lending

956
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:10,620
mechanisms and systems which capitalism

957
00:44:07,830 --> 00:44:12,900
has imposed on the world dictate to us

958
00:44:10,620 --> 00:44:15,900
have the Chinese broken free from from

959
00:44:12,900 --> 00:44:17,640
that kind of userís model or have they

960
00:44:15,900 --> 00:44:20,220
complied with these transnational sort

961
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:21,660
of userís money lending mechanism is

962
00:44:20,220 --> 00:44:23,790
that why they're being allowed to

963
00:44:21,660 --> 00:44:26,100
interact have they just sold out just

964
00:44:23,790 --> 00:44:28,710
like the Americans sold out a century

965
00:44:26,100 --> 00:44:30,150
ago so my thing about it my question is

966
00:44:28,710 --> 00:44:32,220
really about ethics and morality of

967
00:44:30,150 --> 00:44:34,980
politics moral politics and does that

968
00:44:32,220 --> 00:44:36,540
moral politics exist on the spectrum

969
00:44:34,980 --> 00:44:38,130
whether it's with China or whether it's

970
00:44:36,540 --> 00:44:38,610
with Western democracies and if it

971
00:44:38,130 --> 00:44:40,320
doesn't

972
00:44:38,610 --> 00:44:43,020
isn't that where wait we ought to be

973
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:46,140
focusing to change that the narratives

974
00:44:43,020 --> 00:44:48,630
that were given by the the hierarchical

975
00:44:46,140 --> 00:44:50,670
elites and who filter it through the

976
00:44:48,630 --> 00:44:53,640
media through their levers of power the

977
00:44:50,670 --> 00:44:55,410
politics the economic systems I'm I'm

978
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:57,480
really all for a big debate and

979
00:44:55,410 --> 00:44:59,190
discussion about moral politics and a

980
00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:01,770
new vision a different vision from

981
00:44:59,190 --> 00:45:03,660
simply being driven by growth and profit

982
00:45:01,770 --> 00:45:05,400
and and and the need and I accept that

983
00:45:03,660 --> 00:45:07,950
we need to eradicate poverty it's a

984
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:09,750
transformational process not a

985
00:45:07,950 --> 00:45:12,720
revolutionary one I get that but is

986
00:45:09,750 --> 00:45:15,600
anybody committed to that I'm committed

987
00:45:12,720 --> 00:45:20,460
to a debate on it I just make this point

988
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:22,620
to you that the people who rail against

989
00:45:20,460 --> 00:45:24,970
growth are usually the people that are

990
00:45:22,620 --> 00:45:28,270
already rich rather than the

991
00:45:24,970 --> 00:45:30,609
all that want to be yes I Samir valium I

992
00:45:28,270 --> 00:45:32,680
was just getting woman woman tour

993
00:45:30,609 --> 00:45:34,900
towards the point I wanted to make in

994
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:37,359
the program and it's about a very new

995
00:45:34,900 --> 00:45:39,849
trade deal or business there was they've

996
00:45:37,359 --> 00:45:41,500
got I'm in a pipeline my biggest

997
00:45:39,849 --> 00:45:43,060
concerns always been who benefits from

998
00:45:41,500 --> 00:45:45,609
it because it doesn't ever seem to be

999
00:45:43,060 --> 00:45:47,410
the poorest of the west or the east for

1000
00:45:45,609 --> 00:45:49,960
example there's these rules in China

1001
00:45:47,410 --> 00:45:52,599
where if you're below a certain amount

1002
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:55,660
in terms of wealth you know a letter

1003
00:45:52,599 --> 00:45:57,609
travel or buy an airplane ticket in

1004
00:45:55,660 --> 00:45:58,569
England if you're on benefits you're not

1005
00:45:57,609 --> 00:46:00,670
allowed to leave the country

1006
00:45:58,569 --> 00:46:03,250
unless you've secured a job first even

1007
00:46:00,670 --> 00:46:05,140
under freedom of movement so my way

1008
00:46:03,250 --> 00:46:07,750
she's been is like yes we can have all

1009
00:46:05,140 --> 00:46:09,490
these new great ideas and schemes and

1010
00:46:07,750 --> 00:46:10,990
trade deals but we can't have it waste

1011
00:46:09,490 --> 00:46:12,910
just a certain section of society that

1012
00:46:10,990 --> 00:46:15,010
gets to go to the UAE and benefit with a

1013
00:46:12,910 --> 00:46:17,260
great jobs thing and then a certain

1014
00:46:15,010 --> 00:46:19,329
section of society gets to get into the

1015
00:46:17,260 --> 00:46:23,140
Silk Road and whatever trying to do in

1016
00:46:19,329 --> 00:46:25,930
and you know we need to poorest people

1017
00:46:23,140 --> 00:46:28,780
when I was when I was your age I had the

1018
00:46:25,930 --> 00:46:31,210
right to go and take tea in the Ritz but

1019
00:46:28,780 --> 00:46:33,730
I didn't have the money to do it so the

1020
00:46:31,210 --> 00:46:35,619
right to do it wasn't actually all that

1021
00:46:33,730 --> 00:46:37,300
important that's correct so you know say

1022
00:46:35,619 --> 00:46:39,099
same here you know what nice you know

1023
00:46:37,300 --> 00:46:40,180
yourself in a car trade driving with

1024
00:46:39,099 --> 00:46:42,490
some nice cause I can't afford all these

1025
00:46:40,180 --> 00:46:44,109
nice cars but I can drive every single

1026
00:46:42,490 --> 00:46:46,359
one and I can tell you everything about

1027
00:46:44,109 --> 00:46:48,310
every single one it you know total cars

1028
00:46:46,359 --> 00:46:50,530
going but all I'm saying is like we've

1029
00:46:48,310 --> 00:46:52,720
we've all these new things out there you

1030
00:46:50,530 --> 00:46:55,900
know again capitalism what we brought

1031
00:46:52,720 --> 00:46:57,819
endless growth people don't want to fail

1032
00:46:55,900 --> 00:46:59,140
is they don't want to say okay we saw it

1033
00:46:57,819 --> 00:47:01,240
a little bit less this year doesn't

1034
00:46:59,140 --> 00:47:03,099
matter let's try a bit harder next

1035
00:47:01,240 --> 00:47:06,130
there's no room for failure

1036
00:47:03,099 --> 00:47:08,290
everything is always this kind of KPI

1037
00:47:06,130 --> 00:47:10,780
type system of profit profit profit

1038
00:47:08,290 --> 00:47:12,400
profit and you know if you lose out

1039
00:47:10,780 --> 00:47:14,290
that's a you've lost that you're a loser

1040
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:16,329
and that's the end of your career and

1041
00:47:14,290 --> 00:47:17,800
everything and just yummy I just wide

1042
00:47:16,329 --> 00:47:19,510
just want if we're gonna have these new

1043
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,010
schemes we've got to have it where the

1044
00:47:19,510 --> 00:47:22,930
poorest people of the world can benefit

1045
00:47:21,010 --> 00:47:24,520
as well not just this you know people

1046
00:47:22,930 --> 00:47:25,599
from the grammar schools and a private

1047
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,220
school is they know about all the good

1048
00:47:25,599 --> 00:47:28,240
stuff first and they benefit from here

1049
00:47:27,220 --> 00:47:30,339
then everyone else finds that twenty

1050
00:47:28,240 --> 00:47:32,920
years later we do that you know I mean

1051
00:47:30,339 --> 00:47:34,420
so this is what my problem is again if

1052
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:35,920
we're gonna do these new like same with

1053
00:47:34,420 --> 00:47:38,290
a Pakistan thing you know when we

1054
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,860
discuss maybe Imran Khan great they've

1055
00:47:38,290 --> 00:47:40,900
got some

1056
00:47:38,860 --> 00:47:42,460
there's an anti pipeline but involves

1057
00:47:40,900 --> 00:47:45,130
some of the people there not had a piece

1058
00:47:42,460 --> 00:47:48,750
of a cake yet no other Mei is a paradox

1059
00:47:45,130 --> 00:47:52,090
isn't it you've got you've got a

1060
00:47:48,750 --> 00:47:56,160
communist party with all the emblems and

1061
00:47:52,090 --> 00:47:59,970
the colors and as red as Trevor socks

1062
00:47:56,160 --> 00:48:06,240
but actually what they're pursuing is

1063
00:47:59,970 --> 00:48:09,340
capitalism and you can't vote them out

1064
00:48:06,240 --> 00:48:12,070
they they have they have the authority

1065
00:48:09,340 --> 00:48:15,790
of being a communist revolutionary

1066
00:48:12,070 --> 00:48:19,390
government which overthrew foreign

1067
00:48:15,790 --> 00:48:21,000
domination United the country and so on

1068
00:48:19,390 --> 00:48:23,500
but they don't actually practice

1069
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:26,610
socialism so why should they be allowed

1070
00:48:23,500 --> 00:48:29,590
to fly the banner and stay in power

1071
00:48:26,610 --> 00:48:31,390
apparently in perpetuity well it's

1072
00:48:29,590 --> 00:48:34,330
socialism with Chinese characteristics

1073
00:48:31,390 --> 00:48:36,640
for a new era to to coin the precise

1074
00:48:34,330 --> 00:48:39,640
phrase but going back a bit further to

1075
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:42,100
the late 70s it was dong who came up

1076
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:44,590
with probably my favorite quote of all

1077
00:48:42,100 --> 00:48:47,320
time I don't care if the cat is black or

1078
00:48:44,590 --> 00:48:49,150
white so long as it catches mice it's

1079
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:51,490
all about problem solving and that's

1080
00:48:49,150 --> 00:48:54,670
what politics is politics isn't an

1081
00:48:51,490 --> 00:48:57,370
exercise in vanity or monopolizing money

1082
00:48:54,670 --> 00:49:00,040
monopolizing the airwaves monopolizing

1083
00:48:57,370 --> 00:49:02,920
force it's about solving problems the

1084
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:06,610
people's problems as many people and as

1085
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:08,500
many problems as one cancelled and let's

1086
00:49:06,610 --> 00:49:10,630
imagine this studio were to be put into

1087
00:49:08,500 --> 00:49:13,930
a time capsule everything that's been

1088
00:49:10,630 --> 00:49:16,780
said is indeed relevant today in less

1089
00:49:13,930 --> 00:49:18,550
than 20 years time all of the jobs the

1090
00:49:16,780 --> 00:49:20,500
working-clothes jobs the middle-class

1091
00:49:18,550 --> 00:49:21,820
jobs I would say the upper-class droves

1092
00:49:20,500 --> 00:49:24,190
but at least in England they don't have

1093
00:49:21,820 --> 00:49:26,650
jobs they don't even couple the jobs

1094
00:49:24,190 --> 00:49:28,930
themselves are going to be they're going

1095
00:49:26,650 --> 00:49:31,690
to be transferred from the fleshy hand

1096
00:49:28,930 --> 00:49:33,790
to the robotic an artificial

1097
00:49:31,690 --> 00:49:36,490
intelligence and there is going to be a

1098
00:49:33,790 --> 00:49:38,920
moment when the penny drops where people

1099
00:49:36,490 --> 00:49:40,840
are going to say look who is working for

1100
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:43,540
who are we working for the machines or

1101
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:46,330
are the machines working for us now no

1102
00:49:43,540 --> 00:49:49,060
system has totally come to terms with

1103
00:49:46,330 --> 00:49:52,510
this yet but the fundamental structure

1104
00:49:49,060 --> 00:49:54,820
that China has whereby money sir

1105
00:49:52,510 --> 00:49:55,660
lates rather than goes down a one-way

1106
00:49:54,820 --> 00:49:58,860
street

1107
00:49:55,660 --> 00:50:01,240
to who knows where well we know indeed

1108
00:49:58,860 --> 00:50:03,010
this is going to be a model that many

1109
00:50:01,240 --> 00:50:05,530
other countries will have to look at and

1110
00:50:03,010 --> 00:50:08,020
how to adapt it in a flexible way to

1111
00:50:05,530 --> 00:50:10,660
their own cultural characteristics and

1112
00:50:08,020 --> 00:50:11,230
the own economy that they want for their

1113
00:50:10,660 --> 00:50:13,750
people

1114
00:50:11,230 --> 00:50:19,000
Travel last word to you damn trapping

1115
00:50:13,750 --> 00:50:21,910
also said to be rich is glorious yeah

1116
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:25,420
and he said that because he believed in

1117
00:50:21,910 --> 00:50:30,040
spreading wealth through using the

1118
00:50:25,420 --> 00:50:32,500
market economy and so arguments against

1119
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:34,750
the market economy my view are define

1120
00:50:32,500 --> 00:50:37,180
the facts of the history of the world

1121
00:50:34,750 --> 00:50:38,680
over the last 50 years which is that the

1122
00:50:37,180 --> 00:50:39,220
world is richer than it's ever been

1123
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:41,820
before

1124
00:50:39,220 --> 00:50:44,350
you you do have disparities in income

1125
00:50:41,820 --> 00:50:46,930
absolutely but you have the opportunity

1126
00:50:44,350 --> 00:50:48,760
even if you're poor George even if you

1127
00:50:46,930 --> 00:50:50,590
can't go to the Ritz today you have the

1128
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:54,130
right to go there your children may be

1129
00:50:50,590 --> 00:50:56,410
able to go there if you do the right you

1130
00:50:54,130 --> 00:50:58,510
can do now yes and you do go now I'm

1131
00:50:56,410 --> 00:51:01,120
sure but that's the point the world

1132
00:50:58,510 --> 00:51:03,240
changes and one way you change the world

1133
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:07,950
is through education education education

1134
00:51:03,240 --> 00:51:12,910
but this this view somehow that the

1135
00:51:07,950 --> 00:51:14,500
Nirvana of the communist state is the

1136
00:51:12,910 --> 00:51:16,450
future of the world in my view is wrong

1137
00:51:14,500 --> 00:51:17,680
I think it's the communist states that

1138
00:51:16,450 --> 00:51:20,110
don't have to adjust to the fact that

1139
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:21,850
the world is freer more dynamic than

1140
00:51:20,110 --> 00:51:25,120
ever before and that they have to

1141
00:51:21,850 --> 00:51:27,910
embrace that and it's simply not true

1142
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:29,560
that the welfare system in China is

1143
00:51:27,910 --> 00:51:31,870
better than the welfare system in the US

1144
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:33,910
for example us and welfare system is not

1145
00:51:31,870 --> 00:51:36,490
as good as ours in the UK but the

1146
00:51:33,910 --> 00:51:38,020
Chinese one doesn't even cover their

1147
00:51:36,490 --> 00:51:40,900
people if you can't afford to pay they

1148
00:51:38,020 --> 00:51:42,640
have no national health care system so

1149
00:51:40,900 --> 00:51:45,490
they have a long way to go the average

1150
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:47,860
Chinese is 6 times 6 times poorer than

1151
00:51:45,490 --> 00:51:51,100
the average American so they have to get

1152
00:51:47,860 --> 00:51:52,690
a lot richer before they begin to be

1153
00:51:51,100 --> 00:51:54,910
first world in the sense that you've

1154
00:51:52,690 --> 00:51:57,130
described it earlier George it's been

1155
00:51:54,910 --> 00:51:59,790
marvelous for me I hope it was for you

1156
00:51:57,130 --> 00:52:00,920
I've been George Galloway this has

1157
00:51:59,790 --> 00:52:07,409
kalimera

1158
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:07,409
[Applause]

1159
00:52:08,610 --> 00:52:12,209
[Music]

1160
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:21,429
[Applause]

1161
00:52:13,260 --> 00:52:21,429
[Music]