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should workers in essential Services be

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refused the right to Strike should

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workers in essential Services be refused

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the right uh to strike Matthew Hancock

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thinking of course of the current

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difficulties who brought London to a

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halt for the 48 hours in well many of us

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were many of us were delayed on the way

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down here and you know I support the

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Trade union movement and I work with the

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Trade union movement for instance on

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expanding apprenticeships um and I think

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that they are badly served by their

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bosses because there was not a majority

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of trade unionists who voted for this uh

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action the majority of workers on the

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tube didn't vote for this action and

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they were driven into it by their bosses

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and I think that we do need to look at

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um that you know the way that those

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votes uh take place um and we also need

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to think about whether essential

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Services uh can be brought to a stand

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for instance you know the police can't

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strike uh because you wouldn't want a

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moment when all of the police in uh in

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the country weren't at work so are you

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in favor of essential Services being

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refused the right to strike well I think

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the New York subway I believe they have

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no right to strike I I do think that we

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need to uh consider it um but I don't

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think we should consider mean exactly

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have a look I think yeah and but I don't

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think that we should do it off the you

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know in the midst of the uh of of you

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know of a strike which has been so

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destructive because we is that the right

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moment to think no because no because we

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need to balance on the one hand the

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right to withdraw your labor is an

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important right but but just as

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important and I would say this week as

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it you know more important is the

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ability to keep our country going and

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the ability for people to be able to get

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on with their lives and the strike this

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week has shown that despite the fact

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that a majority didn't vote for it they

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managed to have a big disruptive impact

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which means that doctors haven't been

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able to get get in to treat their

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patients that teachers haven't been able

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to get into schools to teach and I think

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that this strike was absolutely wrong

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and we need to look at whether we need

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to change the rules about it do you do

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you want the right to strike

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refus um personally I think that um

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members of of the nond underground who

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decide to strike I think that is an

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essential service if you look at uh

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situations with horrific situation such

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as a terrorist attack or 77 you look at

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those supervisors number of people in

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those stations who helped evacuate

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people who were within those tunnels who

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are in those moments those crucial

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moments where they were then supported

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by the emergency emergency services you

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can see the focus and the importance of

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of that service and you can see the

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importance of it to London as a

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financial Capital if we the the real

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losers at the end of the day are going

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to be the millions of londoners who

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haven't got to work aren't able to get

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to work where the economy then suffers

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when we've been growing and um to to be

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honest personally I find the fact that

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um the fact that rmt officials haven't

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really met properly with brce Johnson or

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whatever there's a breakdown of

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communications they're frankly

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ridiculous

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okay George George Gallow well this is

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what happens when you elect a clown as

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the mayor of London and it's not very

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funny and the suffering that has uh

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occurred over the last 40 hours is not

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funny for anybody and it's not funny for

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the workers who had to lose

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two days pay over it by the way the

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workers voted to strike I wouldn't like

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anyone to be misled you support trade

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unions like the Rope supports the

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hanging

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man the truth is that Boris Johnson

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provoked this strike by issuing a Fiat

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to close every ticket office in London

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and make hundreds of people redundant

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without negotiating it with the people

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who are paid to represent the interest

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of the staff you know if it's not rocket

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science 5 years Boris Johnson has not

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met with the leaders of the rmt this is

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contempt T contempt for working people

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and their organizations and in the final

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analysis working people only have their

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labor to withdraw they don't have your

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money they don't have the money that the

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people in the city of London have they

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don't have any power except their own

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labor power and the right legally

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democratically to decide to withdraw it

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for a day or uh two only 30% of members

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of the rmt voted for this strike you're

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assuming the others were all against it

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only 30% of people voted for Boris

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[Applause]

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Johnson and the plan is and the plan is

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perfectly reasonable and not to close

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every ticket off it and in fact well

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covered that it is to close every single

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ticket office on the London Underground

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you don't even know what your own

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mayor's doing it's that's just not true

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and it and also it's well covered by

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voluntary uh people applying for

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voluntary redundancy it's a perfectly

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reasonable Plan and there's no good

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reasonable argument for bringing London

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to a ho all right the woman up there um

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well firstly I think it's really unfair

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of you to suggest that people are just

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striking to prevent people from getting

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to work they're striking because they're

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angry and if Pol Ians are just going to

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say they're only going to consider

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helping them in the future then it's no

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wonder that they want to strike to begin

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with okay and you sir Center there I I

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totally support the right of anyone to

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take strike action but the London

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Underground is one of the most expensive

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underground systems in Europe to surely

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this is a way of improving efficiency on

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the Underground system and hopefully

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reducing fears all right let's come back

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to the issue of whether it's so

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important that there should be no right

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to strike in this and other essential

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Services David starky what do you I

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think generally the rule is that there

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should be no right to strike because

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what is happening in this this strike

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indeed has happened in the London

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Underground over the last 15 or 20 years

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is a process of pure extortion Bill Crow

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is not an ineffective Trade union leader

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Bill Crow is a staggeringly bob whatever

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he is um uh the the the large fat red

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man with the Peno coladas um is an

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incredibly effective Trade union leader

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they are paid £52,000 haven't forbit how

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much are you ear um I I want more than

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that for a less honorous less

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responsible job come on their jobs could

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be replaced by a dummy uh the the the

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most of the trains are designed to run

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automatically come on these trains are

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designed and intended to run

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automatically as every subway system in

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the world is increasingly doing now what

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has happened with London Underground is

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that it has been mismanaged by both

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Livingston and by the current mayor

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Livingston deliberately encouraged the

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trade unions Boris has been is a

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hopeless administrator Ken Livingston is

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a malign genius and London tfl needs

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shaking up from top to bottom the reason

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fairs are so scandalously expensive is

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mismanagement on an unbelievable scare

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but is it is it is it a service so

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essential that the law that replies to

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the police and the military that they're

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not allowed to strike if we were any if

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we were any other European country it

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would be I was actually astonished to

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discover that we are the only country in

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Europe that does not have a coherent

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body of law defining essential services

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and defining what you have to do in the

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event of a strike it's not about you're

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never allowed to strike but it's that if

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if if you do go on strike there is a

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basic minimum that you are obliged to

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maintain and I was absolutely astonished

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every country in Europe except us has a

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very clear body of law relating to that

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and yes it includes public transport in

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large cities so what would the effect of

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that be in in London it would have meant

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that you had to keep a service going on

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every single line at at a certain level

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it wouldn't have meant that you couldn't

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take any industrial action but it would

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have meant that people who really had to

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get around could and in terms of

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withdrawing your labor I mean you know I

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have friends who have lost large amounts

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of money because their businesses

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effectively had no takings over the last

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two days so you know this is this is why

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these are defined as essal they're

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defined as essential because they are

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essential to allowing other people to

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carry out their normal life essential to

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allowing people to get to doctor's

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appointments get to school get to work

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get to businesses that's what

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essentially means Tess may may let's

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just Define you a little bit here you

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may be the person who challenges for the

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mayor meraly of London when you may know

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more than I do no I I said you may be

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and and I know many people tip you to be

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mayor of London were you mayor of London

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what will you do about this well first

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of all I I would not support withdrawing

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the right to strike from public sector

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workers in response to Allison's point

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you know I uh got the tube the bus

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yesterday it was inconvenient long

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delays and all the rest of it but it was

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possible to get it met your standard of

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of of of a basic service but you know I

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think that withdrawing the right to

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strike assumes that uh public sector

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workers undertake industrial action in a

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kind of Reckless unthinking way and they

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don't and this was a strike just a

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second David stop it the this was a

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strike that was completely preventable

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completely preventable had first of all

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Boris Johnson not broken the promise

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that he made uh when he was elected he

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promised that no ticket stations uh

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ticket offices would be closed I

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actually think that that there is a case

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for um you know getting people out of

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ticket offices and out on the platforms

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all that could have been negotiated had

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we not had the F of Boris Johnson and

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Bob Crowe the only way they could talk

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to each other was by phoning LBC and

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having their discussion mediated by Bob

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crow that is not the way to do it

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okay

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well Boris stood on a very clear

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platform of modernizing the tube and you

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know why we need to

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modernize promis to keep the ticket

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officers he he stood on a platform of

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modernizing can I read the quote out

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just so we get round this point 2010 the

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mayor takes this promises to London

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extremely seriously every station that

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has a ticket office will continue to

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have one statement from City

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Hall is how many people do you put in

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ticket offices and are people better on

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the station platforms this is the

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proposal on the station platforms

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helping people when only only 3% of only

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3% of the traveling public used the

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ticket off so why did he go out on a

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limb only three years ago to say every

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station will have a ticket off because

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of course there will still be places you

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can go in each station you're struggling

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here because clear you have

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people people there will be people

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available right for when people have

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this is called the student loans moment

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but the crucial thing about um improving

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the tube is that then we can keep the

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prices on it down and you can't keep the

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traveling public moving and moving at a

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reasonable cost if you set everything in

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stone and say that when when 97% of

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people who use the tube don't go through

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a ticket office we need to have them and

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staffed up because Bob Crow says all

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right let's just take one more point

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from the person at the back there um I

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completely agree with Tessa there

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everyone should have the right to strike

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why why it depends what their job is

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just because they're brave enough to do

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that job it doesn't change their right

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to

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strike saying the come on what about

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the should encourage other politicians

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to sort out

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situations 24 hours it's all over you've

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said everybody should have the right to

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strike are you saying the police should

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have the right to strike what well yeah

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and the well

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yeah is this how we conduct debate and

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the threat of that Strike should make

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decisions I don't think it's wise to

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insult our audience on the con the

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audience occasionally needs

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it it's an honestly plate and not

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somebody who's freid I'll take one more

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point from the now I've heard you and uh

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you saying spectacles there yes yeah all

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sorry I think the most important thing

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in this is actually being lost the

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people involved in uh in the underground

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in who work for tfl are being completely

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forgotten unfortunately you've got two

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egos completely dominating this argument

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the media is spinning it to be a a a bob

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crow versus Boris Johnson now the thing

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is if you take away the people's right

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to strike what else have they got if the

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unions aren't working what protection is

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there for the common man in a dispute

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that isn't striking

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okay have you heard of employ have you

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heard of employment law do you know the

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huge structure of employment protection

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that now exists strikes in the public

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sector are mere extortion against you

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and me that's all they are which is why

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they paid 52,000 a year well some of

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them are can I just deal with this

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because it's not true some underground

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workers earn 5,000 a year the drivers do

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nothing 52,000 is a bad month's bonus

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for a banker in the city of London give

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me a tube driver with hundreds of people

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at his back that's a responsible and

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important job if the bankers went on

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stri if the bankers went on strike we'd

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all be better off all right