[Music]
I'm George Galloway I am Steve Topol and
we are toppled Galloway and we both got
mad haha we're going to manfully
struggling through it because the show
must go on Steve the Labour conference
in Liverpool was almost a throwback to
an earlier age it was unpredictable
there were clashes most of them offstage
behind the screen if you like but
nonetheless impacting on the public
relations of the whole thing I would
have thought myself it will go down as a
disastrous conference on two counts at
least though there may be more first of
all the Labour Party threw away the
opportunity which was their fully
justified and would have changed if not
everything that most things they had the
opportunity to change their rules so
that before every general election every
Labour MP has to be rejoicing as a
candidate now on the principle of Liz
encouragement des autre for the
encouragement of the others the threat
that one is to be deselected will
influence an MP's behavior conduct
application to the job in a way that
nothing else can cause I've got to tell
you as someone who was an MP almost 30
years for the vast majority of MPs they
care only about one thing and that is
continuing to be an MP if they think
they've got a job for life and no one
can touch them well they're likely to
behave in a certain way if they know
that every four years they're going to
have to come in front of the members of
their local party and justify not just
their ideological position
their politics but their work rate the
number of times they spoke ask questions
the number of times they did surgeries
in the constituency the effort they've
made to get along with the local party
whose candidate they are all these
things would have been every four years
up for grabs and that would have
produced a completely different culture
amongst Labour MPs and labour threw away
the opportunity for reasons I'm not
entirely clear on why don't we start
with that as year and let me get your
take on that yeah no I agree I mean I'm
not entirely clear on the issue either
why why it panned out the way it did I'm
in some private group dm's on Twitter
and there was a lot of chewing and
throwing and a lot of arguments about
the issue between labour members the but
it's just the the the problem with it is
it's now completely firstly it's left
them in the same position the party was
in six months ago one year ago three
years ago when Corden was first elected
and that's this infighting and this
stabbing in the metaphorical back of
Corbin I their MPs can continue which
not only affects their there and image
within the electorate but also affects
Caulkins confidence Delaney to pass
muster yeah yeah you can't go three
years day and night 24/7 with this kind
of subversion yeah and it doesn't know
of course and he sends the kind of man
who would affect him I don't think he's
a water off the duck's back on a person
and but moreover any any general
election that would be forthcoming
whether as rumor mill keeps on spinning
there's going to be soon or whether it
is in 2022 is it scheduled to be any
general election will now play at the
service of 2017 one where you have
Labour MPs on doorsteps with there's
campaigners undermining the leader of
the party and will be in the same
session again they had the perfect
opportunity Corbin's section of the
Labour Party to sort this issue out and
it's been thrown away and it's going to
I died I think it's been played down a
lot and the
there hasn't been the coverage and the
who harbor if you like about it which I
think they should have been and I think
I I think it's going to cause trouble
for several years in perpetuity because
it means as you're right they say if
whenever the election is frankly if it's
earlier it's even more true it'll be the
same parliamentary Labour Party that is
elected as currently exists and does
that same parliamentary Labour Party
which currently exists hates Corbin
eighty percent of them at least what's
the purpose of that and you had a chance
to sweep all that way and either change
the behavior of existing MPs or change
the MPs themselves and they've gone for
a fudge will not bore the viewers with
the intricate details of that fudge and
as a because the long and the short of
it is hardly any if any Labour MPs are
going to be removed so that opportunity
has been lost and that will be
significant for Jeremy Corbyn but it's
also significant for work or who rather
comes after yeah Jeremy Copeland because
let's postulate if this Parliament runs
until 2022 which legally must doesn't
mean it will but legally at Mustard's
under the fixed term Parliament act who
had the last one in 2017 so the next one
is 2022 Jeremy Corbyn isn't going to be
the Labour leader going into an election
in 2032 excited because if I'm not wrong
and that would make him 75 and no
British prime minister since Churchill
in fact it would make him all Dylan
George and Roger was 69 when he became
prime minister and for the first time I
don't think that's credible so no I
think that Corbett if it goes all the
way
Corbin's going to have
find the successor anoint a successor
you are the carbon and and that
candidates going to have to be supported
and elected now but under the rules for
the election of leader which again they
fetched it's perfectly possible that the
obvious corbin candidate will not be on
the ballot paper because not enough MPs
then will nominate them there and those
MPs have now got nothing to fear because
they're now not going to be deselected I
mean do the maths yeah no exactly about
politics about numbers yes and it's as
you quite rightly put I mean if I mean
if you okay so the sort possible
candidates which already being touted
there was um
you obviously have Angela Wagner you
have Emily Thornbury you have Rebecca
long Bailey obviously MacDonald is still
in the frame
they sort of outsiders who would like to
see Chris Williams and push towards the
role maybe there's you're quite rightly
point out the likelihood of any of these
necessarily even getting on the ballot
well actually centrists can get on the
ballot
people who are able to get just a few
nominations from left-wing people and
just a few from right not that there's
many left-wing mp's I mean there's not I
kid you not
there's not a dozen left-wing know
exactly yeah and I think the point is
that the only reason Corbin got in was
because they thought they thought they
could go away was doing and that he
wouldn't actually win or as no super
like Frank Field claimed it was to open
up the debate in the party you know even
the lipstick on the bow exactly and
they're not going to make that mistake
again never never and some of those
candidates will get on easily especially
the women that you mentioned because
there is this argument out there that
the next leader has to be a woman yes I
have known two women prime ministers in
Britain let that's gone well there I'm
not sure it's nice family the best card
to play that it must be a woman I think
it's just another and are going to own
that no I think
and we make our positions clear because
I'm very clearly I made I'm against this
notion that you should have certain
percentages of criteria of female MPs or
female people on board rooms it should
be on the merit of the candidate surely
and definitely because unless you're
going to claim that Margaret Thatcher
and treasom a were somehow again for
Humanity because they were women all for
feminism even an exact engine feminists
probably feminists anti-women
anti-environment
she definitely was going all out for was
into the leadership in Liverpool this
week but a candidate like Chris
Williamson or Richard Berger would be
the kind of candidate I would like John
McDonnell the depending on when this is
because John's not much younger than
Jeremy but I mean God forbid if Jeremy
walked under the Clapham omnibus
tomorrow then John McDonald would be the
leader the fact that he's not a woman
would be an absurd objection of course
in these gender-fluid times he could
just claim that he identifies a Norma as
a woman and that would be the that would
have the problem story okay but so
McDonald if it was early Bergen
Williamson if it was late they'll find
it difficult now getting on to the
ballot paper in favor of the kind of
more centrist options that's so and I
mean just like on the MPs elections the
left
whatever the left is had this power in
its hand to culturally shift and
decisively change both those things in
leader MPs and they failed to do so they
decided not to do so yeah that's the
puzzling thing
it is yes but they kind of um they're
kind of sums up the whole conference
really doesn't it I think it a one or
one thing nor the another one thing on
the other and ultimately a massive piece
of Stickley sweet sugary fudge mmm
ultimately because moving on from the do
open selections in that situation we
then had brexit dramas didn't weigh as
well would have been far better if they
hadn't dealt with it at all if they'd
done what they did last year and
basically ignore the elephant in the
room yeah because what they have
achieved now is both the worst of both
worlds but I think potentially fatal to
their general election they put on the
table that which carbon and McDonald
repeatedly said including on the day of
the debate John McDonald said on the day
of the debate if there is to be another
referendum on brexit it will not include
romaine because that decision is already
made and we respect the result of the
referendum now I don't want another
referendum but I could live with one if
it's about the terms yeah what I cannot
accept will not accept and will never
vote for is having a referendum getting
a result and then having it again and
maybe even again until you've changed
the result I can't do that and I think
that's a knife
at the heart of British democracy and a
very dangerous one too
I think it can it can actually risk
social peace in the country I agree yeah
not drum not overdramatize I think I
don't think you are a sad breakfast
angle discussing it with Nicola this
morning and while I I mean I'm kind of
neither healing all day on the brexit
issue really but I think that a second
referendum is dangerous for numerous
reasons as you stated possible social
unrest but not least because
there was accusations of malpractice and
lying and manipulation from both sides
in the previous referendum so is it all
unlike most elections that's yeah
exactly first point so is it all going
to be fair again I think going back and
asking this question again I'll be a
more difficult questions exactly the the
it was a romaine or leaf a new
referendum would be do you want to
remain on the Norway model footnote
appendix the Canada model food nor
appender I mean how can you have a
referendum on a multi option set of
complexities like that I mean it'll need
to be like an encyclopedia rather than
exactly who is that everyone will need
to have done the bloody degree before
there is able to vote in it but the
point is that that's the last referendum
was a bunch as well because both sides
neither argued their points on the
sleigh or particularly well but also as
you say it's an undermining of democracy
I mean III don't understand the thinking
behind it because the thinking is coming
from middle-class liberals who who who
inside their bubble think think it's the
biggest issue facing this country and I
think they're going there they are
knifing in the back metaphorically again
of Suede's of the country who rightly or
wrongly still believes that leave is the
best yeah by the way if we did have
another in/out referendum and perfectly
certain that out would win it in fact
with a bigger majority because and
here's my third problem with the Labour
conference and in a way for me it's it's
the most sad and the most profound and
labor is not the party I was kicked out
of 15 years ago it's a very different
part in AH and culturally it is I think
an ocean away from its working-class
base from which it came and on which it
rests labor as seen through the prism of
the
France his London centric middle-class
university-educated
metropolitan in spirit and ethic
youth-obsessed and the labor conferences
I used to go to were of course by no
means perfect and I used to rail against
them at the time but they bore some
relationship to what life is like for
the British working class in the country
this conference didn't really when the
guy went to the rostrum and demanded
that the chair stop referring to people
as man and woman and find some
gender-neutral way and was cheered
wildly from the floor something died
inside of me I've got to tell you look I
mean I'm quite I'm all for gender
fluidity and non gender definition
however I think the broader point you're
making is that's the least of our bloody
worries at the minute and I yeah I agree
so he was seeing the chair was saying
the man over there followed by the woman
over there what's wrong with that Steve
well it works on the assumption that
these people identifies men and women
the I it was really disappointing I have
to say I share your disappointment I
don't think I probably feel as deeply as
you because for someone who has been a
long moment so long I've never been part
of the labor movement I've always sort
of slightly rallied against the party
however it was deeply disappointing as I
wrote not least for their Blanken like
blanket like blanket
disregard for disability and the
meetings how did that happen I've given
we we know thanks to you how many
millions of people this affairs I mean
about you're not discussing it basically
having the ins and outs of it was that
composite motions were put forward and
while constituency
the Labour Party's voted for welfare as
an issue to be discussed it was put to
one side by the Union and the affiliates
vote so Moses or momentum and some of
the trade unions but the point the put
the point is that I completely agree
with you
firstly because they didn't debate
welfare at all is damning in itself but
then if you look at some of the policy
proposals coming out as well I think
when one Guardian columnist called John
McDonald's speech declaring class war in
this country it would say anything but
class war I mean it's so watered-down
still and as we discuss we discuss on
another program the other day in terms
of a radical socialist agenda it's not
oh no no it's not that radical talk it
was the it was the accessibility of the
conference as well as since so many
people have spent so many people who say
they couldn't go because they couldn't
afford it they didn't feel that they
fitted in necessarily there and it did
it does just sum up what 70 people
criticized laid before was you've
already point out and I'd be
metropolitan middle class University
layers I mean some of the policy
proposals where was the grand moves on
social housing they promised 20 million
for renters unions for the 11 million
private sector renters in this country
nothing for social housing tenants at
all the welfare state wasn't much bricks
and mortar or a bread and butter there
was enough well take an issue I'm of
course a lifelong campaigner for
Palestine I'm over the moon
the unanimous decision of the conference
and the sea of Palestinian that was
voted to stop armed selling to Israel
yeah well unanimously yeah which is a
remarkable thing and for someone like me
after 40 years of trying I feel very
proud of that but why would you discuss
the suffering of the Palestinian people
but not the suffering of people on
welfare in Britain it's another example
it's quite a cosmopolitan middle class
university educated youth obsessed
to do to have a big debate on Palestine
but not on social housing
yeah because Palestine something you
feel and think about and talk about a
lot social housing what's that again
yeah when's the last ever remember the
last time I saw a social welfare what's
that again when's the last time I shook
hands with someone that was on benefits
and actually being killed by the gunman
yeah there's far more people killed by
Ian Duncan Smith than even killed by the
Israelis at the Gaza fence I have to say
it's - you know launch day we haven't
discussed this before filming I really
appreciate you saying that because
someone there's someone who campaigns
all the time on the state of
Palestinians and their lives and for you
to recognize now it's really important
thank you I really appreciate you saying
that
it's the conservative conference next
week will be equally cruel crushing and
unforgiving I promise you in the
interest of balance our social housing
landlords bank merged with another
company called from Clarion to now form
the biggest social landlord in the UK
now they can claim to the house or to
learn Micah and it's not at its pills
and the whole thing is attacked much as
well because they use clever accounting
trickery to get away with calling
themselves a social landlord because
they're profit-making elements all
registered under different companies so
their main account does not run the
profit but they're subsidiaries which
have five of all run profits and and
this is exactly you're quite wrong as a
point that out but this is the way it
ends up coming up if you if you go to
embrace communitarianism or something
along those lines do it [ __ ] properly
nothing but that's a game I own a book
offered some ducks is half enough our
kind of neither here on their measure
the sale on education
and Jeremy surprising every schools
wonderful nothing on private schools
nothing on grad schools apart from the
same stuff about the VA - good point
that's not assumed nothing of that again
with the Academy's ation or she's
proposing as the councils will have
about how to take bad Academy trusts
back under council control nothing
really to rein in academisation full is
its as half in half out as you say it's
like statist it's neither communitary
honest it's kind of [ __ ] nothing well
then what it more is actually what we
discussed before it's moving towards
this Nordic [ __ ] found model of
socialism which everyone that seems to
be praising in the press that this is
wonderful I've seen a lot of context so
what we move is waterboarding modern
labor that's wonderful that's going
[ __ ] well Sweden isn't it oh boy well
and should we donate a far-right on the
rise after forty years of the Nordic
well the primers will just be tossed out
of office but that's great okay it's
dead the whole thing is a joke you
should have filmed all that did you have
that bit good excellent I just have to
believe there I'm sorry but this
essentially is and it's very
disappointing it is a man flu abated
then come we never sound ourself inspect
in full flow right anyway what were we
supposed to be talking about Instagram
from Tito is obtained Instagram far
better than any other phone so any other
show
so the news broke this week let's mark
zuckerberg
head of facebook has been installing his
own people covertly into Instagram the
company that Facebook bought for 1
billion pounds a little while ago
apparently the CEO ones billion padding
is one bigger Avenel our 1 1 billion
pound for a business that seems to
simply be on a board on which you can
put your baby pictures good isn't it
it's great I'm yet 1 billion pounds some
for Instagram so back yet so basically
what's happened is Zuckerberg has gone
yeah well thanks Instagram and thanks
for all your work now I'm putting my
people in and and I want you lot out and
it's been quite interesting to watch has
been the the former now CEO of Instagram
has been putting up photos on Instagram
obviously all smiley and cheery and
saying thanks thanks for the time and
and good luck to Facebook's people
coming in but there's a gun serious
sides of this because it's quite
concerning and it's for me it represents
sort of a trend that we've sin more
predominantly as well since the
financial crisis where the reach of a
small handful of corporation as if you
like against tolerance more the
oligarchy is getting smaller yeah that's
what I've Russian oleic I hundred people
now own two-thirds yeah of the wealth of
the world yet five hundred people and in
fact across you could get them in this
room they're probably and this Christ
isn't it really but and it's been seen
yeah and this whole story sort of
underscores that issue where where the
since financial crisis not least because
of the way banks don't lend to small
businesses anymore I think in part but I
also think in part it's a systemic move
that's been designed to give massive
companies more monopoly over everything
and we're seeing the breaking up of
smaller companies now and ultimately I
mean from a social media point of view
not least I mean we want this I mean
instagrams to presumably Instagram sold
themselves to Facebook a great profit
for a very few individuals it doesn't
make a great
deal of difference to me I mean baby
pictures are baby pictures whether the
the board on which they're stuck pinned
is owned by Facebook or owned by
Instagram doesn't make a great deal of
difference to me but here's something
now
you're a younger man than me you're also
more tech savvy than me really I don't
understand why we need to allow that to
happen for example a mate of mine has
started an alternative Twitter called
ticket I've seen that yeah yeah yeah no
as far as I could see there's no
difference between ticket and Twitter
except name recognition yeah and
therefore I go to instinct
there's no it's not that Twitter is
better in what it does than ticket
because hey what what's what's
complicated about it yeah you're just
providing a board where people can write
and share ditto
Facebook I mean why don't the Russians
have a Facebook why don't the Chinese
have a Facebook why don't the Bulgarians
have a Facebook yeah why does everybody
have to be on the American Facebook yep
so you're giving these people monopoly
power exactly and that's a very good
point but I think there's for me there's
a real deeper issue apply here and that
is the way that social media has now
become and is now being used by the
corporations that run the world to
effectively exert some sort of control
over us as citizens and what we do I
mean your your news feeds on Facebook
are now controlled tirelessly
manipulated you are I see you on my own
Facebook I've got six hundred thousand
followers on Facebook and that which I
used to be able to freely share and
share to hundreds of thousands of people
at a time well now 20,000 25,000 clearly
somebody's manipulating it somewhere
yeah absolutely I know that I've
experienced the same as well then you
have the the way the advertising is set
up on the websites where websites cache
your history and tailor adverts to suit
you so they bombard you with
you've already been looking at so you
just continue encouraged to buy the same
things from the same companies over and
over again
and it's this and it's this subversive
corporates control they're not banning
people I mean I know it's a more vexed
issue and for example that guy Alex
Jones yeah I mean I can't tell you how
much I love and despise that guy but
when they banned him we should have
realized that they were going to start
banning other people that we loved
actually so Jimmy door for example the
American yeah he's banned I mean they're
actually taking a side to anyone who is
far enough out of the mainstream
Orthodox yeah they haven't done it to me
because I've got maybe slightly too many
followers and slightly too well-known
again but people with bit less and a bit
less well-known are being ruthlessly
punched you say all the time yeah and
you go and you quite right by Alex Jones
it doesn't matter if you agree with his
views or not and of course this is the
older jars that I don't have to agree
with your views I'll defend them to the
death and it doesn't matter if you agree
with Alex Jones although the point is
should he be shut down for saying what
he may or may not think with you bird I
think is a bit of a PR guy as well yeah
we could have creating a brand for
himself
yeah it doesn't matter and the whole
point of the social media is supposed to
be free speech and it's and it's so far
removed from free speech now some yeah
but you get my point there's no barrier
to us making our own Facebook only the
only barrier is how we get everyone to
know about it this is a challenge
exactly yeah and I agree with you I
think that is the way forward I mean it
kind of ties into in some bizarre
respects my issues with the Labour Party
conference that maybe we should be
looking at more things we can do
together as opposed to things that
political parties can do for us but yeah
there's there's no barrier in that at
all and I think I think as a species and
as a society that's the way we need to
be moving forward more is doing things
for ourselves taking corporations out of
it because if you're not very careful
when use you see it's in social media
you see it in the way that Western
governments now operate when
looking we're staring into the abyss of
a very very dystopian future something
that was regarded as science fiction in
the 70s and 80s you see the film Elysium
yes I have yep that's the way if we're
not careful yet we'll end the the ruling
elite will be either literally or
metaphorically up in a space station
that looks like heaven the Garden of
Eden and the rest of us will be fighting
each other literally to the death back
on earth I don't think that's an
exaggeration I really don't
it concerns me greatly as one of my
biggest worries and I took talk about a
lot with Nicola and other people that we
are heading to a very dystopian future I
don't think people realize just and you
see it and then you especially say with
the welfare state Universal Credit which
have written about a lot but a lot it's
essentially what Universal Credit does
it segregates the undeserving poor all
into one the easy little manageable
group where they're all getting the same
benefits and they're all get the same
amount of money and they're all sort of
left to their own devices and then
everyone else and that's extremely
dystopian that you have literally as
underclass being created so actually
only part out of people of the same
color yeah it's class apartheid yeah
yeah and it's happening and I think it's
one of the biggest challenges that we
face but also one of the biggest
challenges and no one really talks about
the Liberal Party conference didn't rise
to these kind of challenges in fact the
more I'm listening to you and the more
I'm thinking back on the conference it
kind of was nothing they kind of changed
nothing yeah
and insofar as it made waves it tried to
split the wave so we we have a situation
where nobody in the country by the way
the Torres will ruthlessly exploit this
nobody in the country knows whether
labor is going to implement breaks up or
not no that's what the net effect of
carbon McDonald's land McCluskey saying
one thing and Kirsten ma in prime time
with the support of most of the media
saying the opposite yeah the end result
is for tens of millions of vote
labor doesn't seem that keen on that on
brexit and I really want brexit so I'm
gonna have to vote for the tourist it's
very dangerous
and 65% of all constituencies were
labour which have turned Labour MP voted
for brakes and yeah and so if only have
a couple of thousand in some cases a few
hundreds change from Labour to
conservative the seat changes hands
exactly this is what's not being
appreciated you can pile up all your
pro-eu votes in North London that you
like you can give Emily Thornbury a
seventy five thousand majority if you
like but if you lose five seats in
Yorkshire disco and Staffordshire and
Derbyshire and the Northeast and the
Northwest than the southwest and South
Wales you've lost the election exactly
put that on Instagram well we've been
topple Galloway we have struggled
manfully through the man flu we're
beginning to get a second wind
where is Elijah comes to an end we're
both feeling a little perky up
let's go next week we're pinkie and pain
God yes let's hope we are and there's
always if you want to get involved we
appreciate your comments there's been
some great ones coming in once they get
you people seem obsessed with our
clothing don't know why not what's not
to love our and I know but I'm the end
apparently I was told go back to
baseball hats so I've gone back to
baseball hats
thank you no I like during your pork pie
I wear that fellas are much to me well
wasn't George I'm afraid no it was for
the viewers at home I was off to film
something else I'm filming in the show
last week I had to look a bit smarter
and whereas whereas in the comfort of
this palatial environment I feel I feel
I can go wrong go rough go breath I want
as I was filming the proper TV awards
not the dots there's even better than TV
that you get with topple Galloway of
couple Galloway we appreciate your
comments I've just been
all three it has we we are back to being
on patreon next week though so if you've
liked these past four weeks as we always
say please subscribe on patreon it
surrounds a lot less it's meant to be
nuts it's about 16 pence that pusher at
today's exchange Rick exactly so do get
involved subscribe and hopefully then
we'll see you next week you can't even
get peanuts for 16 person I think you
can e more god forbid after brexit there
be no peanuts
after brexit just one more thing you see
the whole point about the labor fudge on
brexit is that it clears the way for
Tereza me to call an early khaki
election where she can portray herself
as mrs. britain the one person that you
can count on to implement the democratic
decision of the majority of the British
in the brexit referendum and caricature
mr. Corbyn and his lieutenants as fifth
columnist s-- agents of the european
union and then fill the airwaves with
patriotic bilge there's no point in
complaining about it that's exactly what
she would do and guess who wins a
contest like that the most force of
dichotomies another Tory victory just
one more thing I cannot do this episode
of top of Galloway without addressing
the issue of welfare in the Labor Party
conference even more now some accuse me
of exaggerating what's going on in this
country that I'm being hyperbolic if you
like about the plight of disabled people
sick people and unemployed people I'm
not and for me the Labour Party
conference has betrayed every single
sick disabled an unemployed person in
this country
Margaret Greenwood a shadow Secretary of
State has done nothing to alleviate the
fears of these groups of people and the
party has done nothing because
essentially their welfare policy has
made no move since last year's manifesto
nothing has changed absolutely nothing
has changed pinnacle of this is they're
not committing
to scrap the universal credit with John
McDonnell having to backtrack off side
as a fringe event and say well we think
we might do it this is not good enough
DWP released figures which show that
10,000 people in the work related
activity group of employment support
lands died in three years these are
people who's supposed to be moving
towards work if that is not enough for
labor to get off their asses and start
doing some proper decent work on this
issue I don't know what is
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