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[Music]

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[Music]

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i'm george galloway and i present

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kali mahora on al-maidin television here

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we are

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in london i speak my words freely

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either in parliament on television here

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on the streets of london

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kali mahara means free work that's what

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i speak

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so kali mahora is a two-way conversation

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check it out on al maiden television

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welcome to kali mahora with me george

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galloway on

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almighty television coming to you from

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london

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but dealing with venezuela iran

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the united states and therefore global

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politics

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and the delicate poise at which we now

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stand

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between direct united states military

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involvement

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in venezuela maybe even in

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iran and how the world is and should

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be reacting to that the proximate cause

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of the debate

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is the threats made by the united states

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government

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repeatedly to intervene to stop

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the perfectly legal trade between

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iran and venezuela in petrochemical and

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oil supplies which has absolutely

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nothing to do with the united states

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but the united states has arrogated to

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itself the role

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of the world's policeman although they

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won't go

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into a court at the hague when the icc

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begins to investigate alleged war crimes

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carried out by united states forces in

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afghanistan a policeman that won't go

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into court indeed threatens condemned

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punishment

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against that court and its officials for

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daring

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to question united states behavior the

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whole picture could not more clearly

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demonstrate the absolute immorality

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of the role of the united states in the

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world

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an international bully not an

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international policeman

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but it is still for this moment

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at least might not last long the

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international

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hegemon arrogating to itself the right

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to

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dictate what sovereign governments do

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together or on their own

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so i'm joined as always by a group of

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distinguished experts i'm just the

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enthusiastic amateur in this picture let

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me

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introduce them to you calvin tucker of

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the morning star

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newspaper is a significant figure in his

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own right

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but here as one of 200

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international observers at venezuela's

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democratic elections

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has a particular expertise to bring

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together

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william mora on my right is a prominent

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supporter of the venezuelan government

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a prominent supporter of the late

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president

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hugo chavez that's when i met him

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and he flies the flag here in britain

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for the bolivarian revolution uh the

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theme or the

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ideology behind the government in

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caracas and on my far right if he'll

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forgive me

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using that phrase no political pun

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intended

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is clive menzies businessman

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experienced in the finance sector

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and across technology clive let me

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begin with you these

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sanctions that the united states has

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levied

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against venezuela and against iran

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have no international legal validity

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so how come the united states gets to

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unilaterally impose sanctions

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and particularly against two countries

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both of them under sanctions but seeking

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to trade

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perfectly legally together well

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i draw a lot of my analysis on the work

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we did at critical thinking which was a

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collaborative project to try and

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understand the way the world works

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and when you understand the framework

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within which

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we all live then you begin to see that

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the us of itself is not in control

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but is effectively controlled by the

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structure of the political economy

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and most significantly through money

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power

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and you talk about the arbitrary

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sanctions of the u.s

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uh i would also point to the bank of

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england

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arbitrarily or unilaterally denying

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venezuela its goal

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sitting on two million dollars worth of

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gold which the venezuelans quite

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legitimately asked for it to be returned

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and that was refused um so what we're

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talking about is an overarching power

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structure primarily driven through the

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power of money

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and the u.s is driven by money power or

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controlled by money power

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it's the structural incentives and

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penalties within the political economy

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which create these these tensions

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so no the the us has no legitimacy it's

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quite interesting you

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you talk you made the contrast between

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the us being the world's policeman and

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the

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world's bully uh but when we look at

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militarization

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of police forces generally i would say

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there is very very little difference

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between good time

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i used to regularly be invited to

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debates in academic circles uh

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with uh if you like bourgeois

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thinkers on the subject of the

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rules-based order it was a buzz phrase

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for

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quite some time seems ridiculous now but

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a lot of people used to

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profess adherence loyalty to a

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rules-based

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order but what the us is involved in

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against iran

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and against venezuela is the very

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opposite of a rules-based order

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they've actually ripped up all the rules

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and applied their own unilateral dictat

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haven't they

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well i i would say that they're working

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to a different set of rules

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the rules based order is based on the

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shock doctrine which is basically to

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confiscate

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all assets that rightfully belong to the

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people and then rent them back to them

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and that's how the bolivar

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uh the bolivian government of

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morales came to power sadly no longer in

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existence

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and if you look at what's happened

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progressively across

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latin america the middle east was

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something of a distraction from 9 11

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onwards because it kept the focus on the

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middle east

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in that time you saw the genesis of some

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real

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grass roots i hate to use that work word

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because it's

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manipulated but from the bottom up under

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hugo chavez

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you had this this surge of people power

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that actually started to control its own

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destiny and fostering similar movements

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in ecuador

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in bolivia and in argentina all that has

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now been swept away and venezuela is

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is is the last standout if you like as

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is iran in the middle east along with

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syria where obviously the u.s

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hegemony and and uh

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imperial ambition has been thwarted but

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it hasn't gone away though

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it hasn't gone away and i think that

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what we're seeing

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actually because this has a context of

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the global

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financial system and that is currently

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being deliberately collapsed

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and within that context what we're

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looking at in terms of america

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is it's in its final throes as an empire

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and these to some extent are the last

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gasps of imperial ambition now whether

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whether that will be subsumed into a

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world government which is

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the primary plan or whether the baton

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will be passed to possibly

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israel or china who knows but they are

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all controlled by money power so that

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isn't actually going to change

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anything much i'm surprised you think

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there's a plan

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uh it doesn't look very much like a plan

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to me but we'll come back to

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that calvin as you look

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today at the state of the united states

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at the absolute chaos that exists

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in the united states does it surprise

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even a veteran

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anti-imperialist as you that they're

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still

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getting involved in iran and venezuela

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and between the two

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well i think if you look at what's

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happening

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today right across every state within

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the u.s

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you can see an ideology

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of white supremacism or at least the

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echoes of white supremacism

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rooted way back in the actual formation

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of the united states a country that

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was put together on the basis of the

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extermination of the indigenous

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population and was made economically

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powerful by the transportation

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and enslavement of black people from

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africa

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so you have at the moment this big

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groundswell this upsurge

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of global anguish global anger at what

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happened to

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uh the gentleman in minneapolis george

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floyd

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george floyd but of course it's not

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really about george floyd

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um the man what's happened is that

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that his killing has resonated with

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black people and their allies right

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across the world

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including in countries in quite

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unexpected ways parts of eastern

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europe here in britain in rural welsh

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villages and towns you have black lives

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matter

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protesters coming out uh onto the

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streets

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so the current the current state of u.s

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imperialism

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is deeply rooted in historical

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events and of course it's it's it's

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ideological

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it's political it's economic and it's

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military

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i mean the the movement of the iranian

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tankers in into venezuela the u.s said

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it was going to

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stop that from happening it failed it

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failed to achieve that

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and they really had a bloody nose over

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that but i think

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the military power of the united states

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continues

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essentially unabated but within the

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context of

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a declining economic uh empire who was

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previously stated to a very dangerous

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situation it is

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uh because a wounded animal is uh

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famously more dangerous and no one would

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look at the united states today and

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conclude other than

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this is a wounded country you wonder

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though

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a political class that can't keep order

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in its own streets

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except by the use of extreme violence

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which begets

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still more resistance still imagining

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that it control

291
00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:29,040
can control the streets of venezuela

292
00:11:27,839 --> 00:11:29,680
well it's quite extraordinary i mean

293
00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:32,880
ever since

294
00:11:29,680 --> 00:11:35,040
the attempt to install one guido as the

295
00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:36,640
president of venezuela about 18 months

296
00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:39,440
ago

297
00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:40,000
18 months on guado does not control a

298
00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:42,399
single

299
00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:43,839
hospital a single civil servant a single

300
00:11:42,399 --> 00:11:46,720
policeman a single

301
00:11:43,839 --> 00:11:47,920
army unit absolutely no aspects of the

302
00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:51,120
venezuelan

303
00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:52,720
state and yet uh that individual is

304
00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,839
recognized as the lawful

305
00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:57,279
president of the country by about 50

306
00:11:54,839 --> 00:11:58,880
countries worldwide these countries call

307
00:11:57,279 --> 00:12:00,320
themselves the international

308
00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:02,000
community of course that's ludicrous

309
00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:03,600
there's 200 countries in the world which

310
00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,920
means 150 countries

311
00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:08,160
recognize the legitimate elected

312
00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:11,360
president of venezuela

313
00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:14,399
yet that does not stop this absolutely

314
00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:17,040
appalling sanctions regime affecting

315
00:12:14,399 --> 00:12:18,399
every aspect of the venezuelan economy

316
00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:19,279
and people don't know this but those

317
00:12:18,399 --> 00:12:21,600
sanctions

318
00:12:19,279 --> 00:12:23,680
weren't actually brought in by trump

319
00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:26,320
they began in 2015

320
00:12:23,680 --> 00:12:28,480
under obama and it was only later that

321
00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:29,360
trump intensified those sanctions to

322
00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:32,639
cover

323
00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:34,959
um to seize the citgo oil assets in the

324
00:12:32,639 --> 00:12:38,000
united states to prevent venezuela

325
00:12:34,959 --> 00:12:41,360
from trading to attack the

326
00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:45,360
all financial transactions and so forth

327
00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:48,480
let's hear from dr francisco dominguez

328
00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:50,480
he's the head of center for brazilian

329
00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:53,600
and latin american studies

330
00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:56,800
at middlesex university dr

331
00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:58,399
francisco did the uh success of the

332
00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:01,440
iranian flotilla

333
00:12:58,399 --> 00:13:03,839
arriving with the fuel in venezuela pose

334
00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:05,440
a threat to u.s hegemony

335
00:13:03,839 --> 00:13:07,200
not only do you have two countries that

336
00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:10,240
have been heavily sanctioned

337
00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:12,000
by the united states with you know the

338
00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:15,040
intention to asphyxiate them

339
00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:17,360
economically uh with the intention of

340
00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:19,680
making the pariahs of the world

341
00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:21,200
even with constant threats of military

342
00:13:19,680 --> 00:13:24,079
action against them both

343
00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:26,399
in the case of iran as well as in the

344
00:13:24,079 --> 00:13:29,519
case of venezuela

345
00:13:26,399 --> 00:13:30,160
and the government of iran has taken

346
00:13:29,519 --> 00:13:33,440
position

347
00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:34,000
obviously in collaboration with the

348
00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:36,560
venezuelan

349
00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:38,480
government to actually send this

350
00:13:36,560 --> 00:13:42,399
flotilla

351
00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:44,399
um not only the united states

352
00:13:42,399 --> 00:13:47,360
was tested to try to do something about

353
00:13:44,399 --> 00:13:50,160
it and eventually decided not to do it

354
00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:51,600
in fact the united states has deployed a

355
00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:56,399
huge

356
00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:58,880
um war flotilla in the caribbean

357
00:13:56,399 --> 00:14:00,800
with the ostensible intention to stop

358
00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:01,279
drug trafficking from venezuela as they

359
00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:04,399
claim

360
00:14:01,279 --> 00:14:06,399
false view course and which is

361
00:14:04,399 --> 00:14:07,920
called the collaboration of warships

362
00:14:06,399 --> 00:14:10,880
from france

363
00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:12,560
from the netherlands and the uk this

364
00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:15,600
involved warships

365
00:14:12,560 --> 00:14:16,880
helicopters warplanes submarines god

366
00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:19,519
knows what

367
00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:21,279
and they were right in the vicinity and

368
00:14:19,519 --> 00:14:24,160
one after another of these

369
00:14:21,279 --> 00:14:25,760
tankers just went through and more

370
00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:28,320
important that this was revealed by the

371
00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:31,839
venezuelan government itself

372
00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:32,720
the military escort that is caught to

373
00:14:31,839 --> 00:14:35,360
the

374
00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:36,160
various tank is one after another went

375
00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:39,040
outside

376
00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:40,160
this special economic zone of venezuela

377
00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:42,880
that is to say

378
00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:44,880
went into international waters to make

379
00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:46,560
sure that they were ready to offer any

380
00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:47,440
protection where the united states to

381
00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:51,040
attack

382
00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:53,199
and they went in now this doesn't end

383
00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:56,000
the blockade against venezuela

384
00:14:53,199 --> 00:14:58,079
but he massively tends it but more

385
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,680
important that in terms of the specifics

386
00:14:58,079 --> 00:15:01,360
of the blockade itself economically

387
00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:04,079
financially and so on

388
00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:06,639
energetically speaking i think the most

389
00:15:04,079 --> 00:15:09,519
important significance is symbolic

390
00:15:06,639 --> 00:15:12,560
the inability and paralysis of the

391
00:15:09,519 --> 00:15:15,600
united states that the world's most

392
00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:16,639
radical right-wing government ever after

393
00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:19,600
threatening

394
00:15:16,639 --> 00:15:20,560
repeatedly they ended up doing literally

395
00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,959
nothing

396
00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:25,040
and i think that's a huge blow and it

397
00:15:22,959 --> 00:15:26,320
offers possibilities for many countries

398
00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:27,680
around the world

399
00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:29,360
it's going to change the world quite

400
00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:30,320
dramatically because it's likely to

401
00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:32,720
happen again

402
00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:34,959
and again and again not necessarily only

403
00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:36,959
between venezuela and iran

404
00:15:34,959 --> 00:15:38,399
i'm sure between venezuela and others

405
00:15:36,959 --> 00:15:40,000
iran and others

406
00:15:38,399 --> 00:15:42,000
and many other countries and others

407
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:45,199
because it's totally unacceptable

408
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:48,880
the united states uses extraterritorial

409
00:15:45,199 --> 00:15:50,959
military threat to impose his illegal

410
00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:52,560
will and criminal will on countries that

411
00:15:50,959 --> 00:15:55,279
all the one to do

412
00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:55,920
is trade and collaborate peacefully

413
00:15:55,279 --> 00:15:59,600
william

414
00:15:55,920 --> 00:16:03,360
it's your country uh you must have been

415
00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:06,639
in in terms of your morale greatly

416
00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:08,000
lifted by the failure of the united

417
00:16:06,639 --> 00:16:12,079
states to

418
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:13,040
stop the legal trade between iran and

419
00:16:12,079 --> 00:16:15,120
venezuela

420
00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:17,120
but they haven't gone away have they

421
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:20,399
united states soldiers have been

422
00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:23,600
arriving in next door colombia

423
00:16:20,399 --> 00:16:24,639
the sanctions have been intensified the

424
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:28,240
rhetoric

425
00:16:24,639 --> 00:16:29,360
ramped up how do you see the current

426
00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:34,959
situation

427
00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:34,959
between u.s imperialism and your country

428
00:16:35,199 --> 00:16:38,880
this is a long battle we have with the

429
00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:41,360
united states since the beginning

430
00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:43,680
of the revolution in 1999 at the moment

431
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:46,959
we announced our constitution

432
00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:49,120
the the shape of the constitution was

433
00:16:46,959 --> 00:16:50,000
challenging the document of united

434
00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:53,040
states the way

435
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:54,240
how the constitution set establish the

436
00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,639
distribution of power

437
00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,519
to the people and create the needs to

438
00:16:56,639 --> 00:17:00,079
create

439
00:16:57,519 --> 00:17:01,680
structures at the grassroots to start

440
00:17:00,079 --> 00:17:02,560
taking decisions by their own community

441
00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:05,760
base

442
00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:08,880
president chavez then moved into uh

443
00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:11,600
modifying the the economy system

444
00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:13,199
and recover regain sovereignty on the

445
00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:15,439
oil industry

446
00:17:13,199 --> 00:17:16,799
and that was the nerve that touched the

447
00:17:15,439 --> 00:17:20,400
empire

448
00:17:16,799 --> 00:17:22,559
when we declare that the oil belongs to

449
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:25,439
venezuela immediately we move

450
00:17:22,559 --> 00:17:26,319
the venezuelan reserve out of the exxon

451
00:17:25,439 --> 00:17:29,679
mobil

452
00:17:26,319 --> 00:17:32,240
exxon mobil books into venezuelans books

453
00:17:29,679 --> 00:17:35,120
exxonmobil used to lend money using

454
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:36,880
venezuela reserve as their as their own

455
00:17:35,120 --> 00:17:38,960
when we declared that some mobile

456
00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:40,240
declared that they are having losses

457
00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:43,120
and with exxon mobil all the

458
00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:46,080
corporations in inside united states

459
00:17:43,120 --> 00:17:46,640
the rhetoric we are seeing lately it's

460
00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:49,440
just

461
00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:51,919
a projection of the battle that started

462
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:54,480
in 1999 and then 20

463
00:17:51,919 --> 00:17:55,840
2001 when president chavez announced the

464
00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:58,400
the new laws that

465
00:17:55,840 --> 00:18:00,160
uh enforce the constitution and then

466
00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:02,080
propagate forward the movement the

467
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,520
the the movement of the project

468
00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:05,280
immediately the united states

469
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:07,200
started having reactions violent

470
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:10,000
reactions against venezuela

471
00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:11,120
political uh structures they could time

472
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,960
2002

473
00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:14,960
then the military invasion of

474
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:17,360
mercenaries in 2003

475
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:18,400
the oil strike in 2003 and then

476
00:18:17,360 --> 00:18:20,320
consecutive

477
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,559
manipulations and using the venezuelan

478
00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:26,080
opposition as a puppet

479
00:18:22,559 --> 00:18:27,600
of the united states interest and

480
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:30,720
slowly the venezuelan opposition has

481
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:33,440
been decanted into a very violent

482
00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:34,720
dominant force in the in the venezuelan

483
00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:37,120
spectrum

484
00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:38,240
that silence the moderate voices that

485
00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:40,640
can

486
00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:41,600
protect the protagonism of the democracy

487
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:44,480
in venezuela

488
00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:45,919
so venezuela has been left with a very

489
00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:48,720
violent opposition

490
00:18:45,919 --> 00:18:49,600
supported financially logistically

491
00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:52,160
politically

492
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:53,200
and in the media by the united states

493
00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:55,760
and is allies

494
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:57,840
and and has been carrying up to the

495
00:18:55,760 --> 00:19:00,320
point that we have a puppet

496
00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:02,160
president selected by united states that

497
00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:04,080
has never conquered to the elections of

498
00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:06,240
the mass of the population

499
00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:07,440
has nobody elected him as a president he

500
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,679
has no mandate

501
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:12,400
to do anything but the mandate has been

502
00:19:09,679 --> 00:19:15,600
instructed to him by the united states

503
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:17,440
juan guayo is asking for the most

504
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,120
horrendous things against his own

505
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:22,160
country

506
00:19:19,120 --> 00:19:24,640
without the understanding that he is

507
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:26,720
naked in front of all of us

508
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:28,640
everybody will remember him everybody

509
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:31,039
will not forget what he's doing

510
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:33,280
right now even he has the backing of

511
00:19:31,039 --> 00:19:34,880
very big bullies

512
00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:36,720
these bullies will not stay there

513
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:39,520
forever i hope

514
00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:41,120
we will peacefully overcome this

515
00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,799
resistance that we're having now

516
00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:45,280
with the venezuelan opposition we

517
00:19:42,799 --> 00:19:48,000
peacefully will get to the next election

518
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,960
and peacefully we will demobilize the

519
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,919
the far-right

520
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:53,360
uh violent leadership that the united

521
00:19:51,919 --> 00:19:54,160
states has imposed into the venezuelan

522
00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:57,360
opposition

523
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:59,679
to one side and we will have a moderate

524
00:19:57,360 --> 00:20:01,919
uh constructive opposition that is loyal

525
00:19:59,679 --> 00:20:04,640
to the country and we will be able to

526
00:20:01,919 --> 00:20:06,080
transit to the next stage but now the

527
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:08,799
the detail is this

528
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:09,840
the united states is no it's not having

529
00:20:08,799 --> 00:20:13,280
it

530
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:15,360
is venezuela is in such an a

531
00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:17,440
critical moment that the united states

532
00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:19,840
has to invade venezuela

533
00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:21,280
it's done it's done invaded and is done

534
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:23,760
if they invaded

535
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:26,080
so the united states has himself trapped

536
00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:27,840
himself into an impossible position

537
00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:29,360
and i am afraid they will launch the

538
00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:31,520
attack on venezuela

539
00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:33,280
because they need it because it's a

540
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,240
projection of the domestic policy

541
00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,559
because

542
00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,840
they need to show internally

543
00:20:36,559 --> 00:20:39,919
domestically

544
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:41,520
that they are strong and they need a

545
00:20:39,919 --> 00:20:43,039
victory somewhere

546
00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:46,000
and they think there will be a easy

547
00:20:43,039 --> 00:20:49,120
victory in venezuela and they will not

548
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:50,000
so doctor why did the u.s fail on this

549
00:20:49,120 --> 00:20:52,320
occasion to

550
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,280
stop this trade between iran and

551
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:56,240
venezuela

552
00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:56,720
i wish i knew definitely what the reason

553
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,240
was

554
00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:00,799
but i think there are several reasons

555
00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:03,440
that must come into the picture

556
00:21:00,799 --> 00:21:04,240
for us to understand why they didn't

557
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,159
number one

558
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:08,240
even though the pentagon you know are

559
00:21:06,159 --> 00:21:10,480
very warm monger

560
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,360
themselves and they're the ones that

561
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:13,200
implement the

562
00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:15,440
policy of the united states everywhere

563
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:16,960
they've been doing for decades

564
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,720
i think many of them came to the

565
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:20,000
conclusion i think there are reasonable

566
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:20,880
people there who knows what the

567
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,679
realities

568
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:26,159
of the situation in the world are they

569
00:21:23,679 --> 00:21:26,640
possibly advise against him i mean many

570
00:21:26,159 --> 00:21:29,840
of them

571
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:31,120
during the time when there was this

572
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,200
deployment of the flotilla in the

573
00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:36,159
caribbean against venezuela

574
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:37,039
several voices quite high up offices

575
00:21:36,159 --> 00:21:38,960
went public

576
00:21:37,039 --> 00:21:41,039
in magazines such as foreign policy

577
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:44,640
saying this is not a good idea

578
00:21:41,039 --> 00:21:46,080
and so on so many voices with

579
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:46,960
independent within the military

580
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,799
establishment

581
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,240
i'm sure that president says saying this

582
00:21:48,799 --> 00:21:52,080
is not a good idea

583
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:54,480
and we're very reluctant to go for it

584
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:56,080
they said that publicly many times

585
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:59,200
but i think that is a second important

586
00:21:56,080 --> 00:22:00,240
factor when the united states you know

587
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:04,000
in the most

588
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:07,360
arctic manner prepared the ground

589
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:10,240
by deceit and ended up assassinating

590
00:22:07,360 --> 00:22:13,360
general solimani

591
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:15,120
they um never expected the response that

592
00:22:13,360 --> 00:22:17,280
they got from iran

593
00:22:15,120 --> 00:22:18,480
and in the middle east the united states

594
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:22,720
militarily

595
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:26,240
politically and economically are quite

596
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:29,440
fragile quite vulnerable to attacks

597
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:31,039
i remember reading the response by the

598
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:34,480
iranian government

599
00:22:31,039 --> 00:22:37,039
which was to attack three u.s military

600
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:40,000
bases with substantial force

601
00:22:37,039 --> 00:22:41,840
something that never happened before so

602
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,840
in this particular occasion

603
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:45,360
you know not only the pentagon advice

604
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,360
and the military reluctance in the

605
00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:48,320
united states to go for a significant

606
00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:52,080
conflict

607
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:52,960
but also um the possible response that

608
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,200
they would have met

609
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:56,640
out would have been quite substantial

610
00:22:55,200 --> 00:23:00,000
and i think there is a third

611
00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:01,360
but minor development which is possibly

612
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,600
the europeans were

613
00:23:01,360 --> 00:23:04,720
you know very worried about this sort of

614
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,640
thing although

615
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,000
because they're so cowardly they

616
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:11,360
possibly expressed it very

617
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:13,840
privately making sure that they run away

618
00:23:11,360 --> 00:23:15,679
back to the position of security before

619
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:19,679
this was noticed by anybody

620
00:23:15,679 --> 00:23:21,600
anybody so the united states realized

621
00:23:19,679 --> 00:23:23,440
certainly people were thinking there

622
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:26,240
that would be very isolated

623
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,720
where they are to be a response by iran

624
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,520
um

625
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:31,200
and therefore they decided to sit sit

626
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:34,240
tight and do nothing

627
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:51,840
thank you dr francisco much more of this

628
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:51,840
coming up after the break stay tuned

629
00:23:52,570 --> 00:23:58,400
[Music]

630
00:23:56,559 --> 00:24:00,880
you're watching kalamahora with me

631
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:04,000
george galloway on almighty television

632
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:07,279
coming from london but discussing the us

633
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:10,559
hegemon and its aggression particularly

634
00:24:07,279 --> 00:24:10,960
against iran and venezuela and even more

635
00:24:10,559 --> 00:24:14,960
when

636
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:18,320
iran and venezuela begin to cooperate

637
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:21,440
calvin we've seen this of course before

638
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:24,799
those of us old enough to remember

639
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:28,240
the purpose of these sanctions

640
00:24:24,799 --> 00:24:29,200
and economic destabilization is to make

641
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:32,400
the economy

642
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:33,200
scream in the country that's being

643
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,919
targeted

644
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:37,520
or make the people rather scream we saw

645
00:24:35,919 --> 00:24:39,760
it in chile and the

646
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:41,520
uh the run-up to the overthrow of

647
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:45,039
president allende

648
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:47,760
we've seen it in in many places

649
00:24:45,039 --> 00:24:50,159
but it isn't making iran scream and it

650
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:53,520
isn't yet making venezuela

651
00:24:50,159 --> 00:24:55,120
scream does that then lead in the

652
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:59,200
direction that william

653
00:24:55,120 --> 00:25:02,880
uh thinks that it might of having to

654
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:06,080
take direct military action uh

655
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:09,679
i must say the prospect of this

656
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:12,559
united states this disunited states

657
00:25:09,679 --> 00:25:14,320
getting involved in a major war uh in

658
00:25:12,559 --> 00:25:17,120
venezuela i don't think they'll dare

659
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,919
uh with iran uh is uh is a pretty

660
00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:20,320
frightening

661
00:25:17,919 --> 00:25:21,600
prospect what do you think i think

662
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:24,240
you're i think you're quite right

663
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,840
um i mean i think the united states of

664
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,600
germany is breaking down

665
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,600
internally in the u.s we've got the

666
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,240
racial fault lines the regional fault

667
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,200
lines

668
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:34,799
economic fault lines running across

669
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,880
every part of that

670
00:25:34,799 --> 00:25:39,760
country so i think it's weakening

671
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:42,159
internally i think it's weakening

672
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,200
economically at least in relative terms

673
00:25:42,159 --> 00:25:44,799
to

674
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,640
china and of course i think that lies

675
00:25:44,799 --> 00:25:49,440
behind why uh

676
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,480
donald trump turned uh the u.s imperial

677
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,960
fire

678
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:54,640
from russia and concentrated that on

679
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,799
china and there's been some signs from

680
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:59,360
eu countries that they're now picking up

681
00:25:56,799 --> 00:26:01,840
on the anti-chinese

682
00:25:59,360 --> 00:26:02,960
bandwagon so yes i think this is a

683
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,960
dangerous

684
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,640
uh perhaps a cornered animal might be

685
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,400
going a bit strong but certainly this is

686
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,840
a very dangerous animal that sees

687
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:13,440
threats

688
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:16,000
all around it i mean sanctions

689
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,640
work for the united states in in in the

690
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:20,159
sense

691
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:22,880
that by destroying or disabling

692
00:26:20,159 --> 00:26:24,640
uh the economies of these countries they

693
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,679
create a level of internal

694
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,400
uh turmoil that can lead to the

695
00:26:26,679 --> 00:26:30,559
demoralization

696
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:32,240
of ordinary people and of course

697
00:26:30,559 --> 00:26:33,600
ultimately governments are judged by

698
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:36,880
their ability to

699
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:40,400
deliver what ordinary people need homes

700
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:42,080
uh food health education all the things

701
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:44,400
that william was talking about that the

702
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:47,600
bolivarian revolution in venezuela

703
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:51,360
had had such a proud record

704
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:54,000
until imperialism was able to intervene

705
00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:55,039
both through sanctions and also by

706
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:58,080
manipulating

707
00:26:55,039 --> 00:27:00,000
the price of oil uh going back uh

708
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,679
well going back for decades but in in

709
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:04,159
over over recent years that's had a

710
00:27:01,679 --> 00:27:07,200
substantial effect on venezuela's

711
00:27:04,159 --> 00:27:09,600
ability to look after its own people i

712
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,400
mean the economic situation in venezuela

713
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:13,120
for

714
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:14,080
ordinary people i think is fair to be

715
00:27:13,120 --> 00:27:17,600
described as

716
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:19,919
dire um at the moment um i mean

717
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:21,039
the reason in my view that they're

718
00:27:19,919 --> 00:27:22,399
hanging on

719
00:27:21,039 --> 00:27:24,640
is because they have a government

720
00:27:22,399 --> 00:27:26,480
committed to looking after ordinary

721
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,840
working class and poor people in the

722
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,840
in the barriers the barriers of the

723
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,960
popular districts where working class

724
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:34,080
and poor people

725
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:36,559
uh live and they have a distribution

726
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,679
it's monthly i think um of something

727
00:27:36,559 --> 00:27:40,880
called the clap

728
00:27:37,679 --> 00:27:43,840
uh food hamper so this provides basic

729
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,799
rations for ordinary uh venezuelan so

730
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:48,080
people are being

731
00:27:44,799 --> 00:27:50,000
by and large uh fed um and they've

732
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:52,320
managed to keep the education

733
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:54,000
system and the health service uh

734
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,679
functioning but not not functioning to

735
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,320
the levels they were at the height of

736
00:27:55,679 --> 00:27:59,039
the

737
00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:00,640
uh chavez uh presidency these are

738
00:27:59,039 --> 00:28:02,559
functioning on a low level

739
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,880
but the venezuelan people are not going

740
00:28:02,559 --> 00:28:06,559
to give in if they were going to give in

741
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,080
they've had plenty of opportunities to

742
00:28:06,559 --> 00:28:10,799
wave the white flag from

743
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,840
oil executive strike to the 2002

744
00:28:10,799 --> 00:28:14,240
military

745
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,279
coup the series of mini coups we've had

746
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:18,240
recently

747
00:28:15,279 --> 00:28:20,480
culminating in that absurd kind of

748
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,679
historical reenactment of the bay of

749
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:25,200
pigs when

750
00:28:21,679 --> 00:28:27,520
uh you know this group of mercenaries

751
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:29,600
turns up on the on the venezuelan coast

752
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:32,720
and is apprehended by local

753
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:35,120
local fishermen so no

754
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,799
the sanctions haven't worked i don't

755
00:28:35,120 --> 00:28:38,399
believe they're going to work in the

756
00:28:36,799 --> 00:28:39,520
sense that they're going to topple the

757
00:28:38,399 --> 00:28:41,679
venezuelan

758
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:43,760
government but they do prevent it did it

759
00:28:41,679 --> 00:28:46,960
prevent venezuela from functioning

760
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:48,559
as an ordinary society will the united

761
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:51,600
states militarily

762
00:28:48,559 --> 00:28:52,320
intervene there's a logic to the

763
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,360
military

764
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:57,440
militarily intervening but as francisco

765
00:28:55,360 --> 00:29:00,080
dominguez was saying earlier on

766
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,880
look at the complete lack of action when

767
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,440
iran

768
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,000
launched a sustained barrage of missiles

769
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:08,080
at

770
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:10,080
us bases in iraq the u.s did absolutely

771
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:12,640
nothing of course countries can come in

772
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:14,240
they can the u.s can come in it can bomb

773
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:16,240
it can attack it can attempt to

774
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,559
subjugate but unless they're prepared to

775
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,360
put

776
00:29:16,559 --> 00:29:21,360
boots on the ground because that is what

777
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:23,440
will be required

778
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,960
to subjugate the venezuelan people

779
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:27,120
because my experience of traveling to

780
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:29,840
the countries there's no way

781
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,320
on earth that the population are going

782
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:33,039
to

783
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,919
simply fall over and accept u.s military

784
00:29:33,039 --> 00:29:37,679
domination

785
00:29:33,919 --> 00:29:38,320
let's talk about uh iran dr yasmin madar

786
00:29:37,679 --> 00:29:40,880
from

787
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,679
oxford university saint anthony's

788
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,559
college

789
00:29:41,679 --> 00:29:46,000
is iranian a highly experienced

790
00:29:44,559 --> 00:29:49,760
campaigner

791
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:50,640
on the issues confronting her country dr

792
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:54,080
yasmin

793
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:57,200
welcome doctor why do you think the u.s

794
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:58,559
failed to intervene between the iranians

795
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:01,120
and the venezuelans

796
00:29:58,559 --> 00:30:02,159
in my opinion there are two elements one

797
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:05,039
is

798
00:30:02,159 --> 00:30:07,440
the current situation even before the

799
00:30:05,039 --> 00:30:08,000
last weeks which coincided with the

800
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:11,600
travels

801
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:15,600
of the flotilla the u.s president was

802
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:18,960
facing a major crisis already a hundred

803
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:21,840
thousand people died from corona virgos

804
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,559
of course after that he lost even more

805
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,760
support

806
00:30:22,559 --> 00:30:26,720
because of his attitude towards race but

807
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:29,360
i think he has

808
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,399
quite a lot of enemies within the united

809
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:33,840
states

810
00:30:30,399 --> 00:30:37,440
former defense minister mattis so

811
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:40,159
you see a situation which was unique

812
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:42,080
probably historically there is in

813
00:30:40,159 --> 00:30:45,840
addition the threats that

814
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:48,399
iran had replied to by saying

815
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:49,760
we don't we will not start a war but we

816
00:30:48,399 --> 00:30:51,440
will retaliate

817
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:55,039
should there be an attack on the

818
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:58,559
flotilla the combination i think

819
00:30:55,039 --> 00:31:00,000
has meant this policy we have to be

820
00:30:58,559 --> 00:31:04,080
careful the us is

821
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:08,080
now planning sanctions on all tankers

822
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:11,440
going to venezuela and tanker companies

823
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:12,240
associated with the five tankers so we

824
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,960
are at the

825
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,360
beginning of this whole episode in some

826
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,279
way

827
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,880
some see the failure of the united

828
00:31:17,279 --> 00:31:22,640
states successfully to

829
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:25,279
intervene to mean a real change

830
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:27,039
in the international environment how far

831
00:31:25,279 --> 00:31:31,279
do you think this shake-up will go

832
00:31:27,039 --> 00:31:33,840
it really depends i think at the current

833
00:31:31,279 --> 00:31:34,559
moment in history the u.s president is

834
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:37,919
extremely

835
00:31:34,559 --> 00:31:41,080
isolated and he has made himself

836
00:31:37,919 --> 00:31:42,799
isolated both internally and

837
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:46,159
internationally

838
00:31:42,799 --> 00:31:49,039
and that has given this opportunity

839
00:31:46,159 --> 00:31:49,679
and of course we are going to see a

840
00:31:49,039 --> 00:31:52,640
major

841
00:31:49,679 --> 00:31:55,279
economic crisis that will have long-term

842
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:57,760
effects on the u.s economy

843
00:31:55,279 --> 00:31:59,120
and global economy global capitalist

844
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:01,360
economy

845
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,640
and therefore there is talk of the rise

846
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:05,519
of china and

847
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,720
other international issues having said

848
00:32:05,519 --> 00:32:10,080
all of that

849
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:13,600
i think the us remains the hegemon power

850
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:17,519
in the world and we have to see

851
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:20,720
what happens in november maybe

852
00:32:17,519 --> 00:32:23,279
another u.s president will regain

853
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:24,240
if you like the support of the

854
00:32:23,279 --> 00:32:27,120
international

855
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:28,000
communities the ones that trump has lost

856
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:31,120
and position

857
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:34,480
himself more within the

858
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:37,440
sections of both uh congress

859
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:38,080
but also the military who will back him

860
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,080
more

861
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:42,240
what will iran do now given that they

862
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:44,720
are still facing very serious

863
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:46,720
economic sanctions from the u.s well

864
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,960
iran is in a very difficult

865
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,240
position economically because of the

866
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:53,760
sanctions

867
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:56,640
so it would try as any country that

868
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:57,840
is under such pressures it would try to

869
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:01,679
continue this

870
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:04,960
by selling oil to other countries

871
00:33:01,679 --> 00:33:08,240
in either openly or maybe

872
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:13,279
more secretly but it has to survive

873
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:17,840
an economy for 80 million iranians

874
00:33:13,279 --> 00:33:20,080
cannot continue without selling oil

875
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:21,360
and as you know the price of oil has

876
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:24,880
dropped because of the

877
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:27,200
crisis and so on so iran would try

878
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:29,120
and any other country in that position

879
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:32,320
would have done exactly the same

880
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:35,200
will try and find ways out of it

881
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:37,440
having said that i think the scale of

882
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,720
the problems that iran is facing

883
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:41,919
economically

884
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:45,440
are tremendous and

885
00:33:41,919 --> 00:33:48,640
these will not necessarily solve

886
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:51,039
the long-term economic problems

887
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:52,240
is this the beginning of the end of

888
00:33:51,039 --> 00:33:54,799
united states

889
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:56,159
hegemony in the world well the u.s has

890
00:33:54,799 --> 00:34:00,080
been in decline

891
00:33:56,159 --> 00:34:02,880
and the decline is showing itself

892
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:05,120
in the election of trump it shows itself

893
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:07,519
and there is contradiction

894
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:09,919
but as i said before i think

895
00:34:07,519 --> 00:34:13,599
economically but also in terms of

896
00:34:09,919 --> 00:34:16,560
military air power the us remains

897
00:34:13,599 --> 00:34:17,040
a powerful country and there will be

898
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:20,560
time

899
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:24,320
before maybe decades a couple of decades

900
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:28,240
before another country can overtake it

901
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:31,679
dr yasmin thank you uh clive

902
00:34:28,240 --> 00:34:35,359
what options do the u.s have short of

903
00:34:31,679 --> 00:34:38,399
war to uh assert

904
00:34:35,359 --> 00:34:39,119
their hegemony which we're all talking

905
00:34:38,399 --> 00:34:42,560
about

906
00:34:39,119 --> 00:34:45,119
what can they do uh on the level of

907
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:47,200
this money power that you talked about

908
00:34:45,119 --> 00:34:50,960
well they are undoubtedly still

909
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:52,320
the king well i think i think if one

910
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,560
looks at the history of

911
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,520
countries that have been sanctioned and

912
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,920
attacked

913
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,640
iraq for example where madeleine

914
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,280
albright

915
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,760
said it was worth half a million iraqi

916
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,800
children

917
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:06,240
dying for then if we look at what has

918
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,200
happened through the middle east then

919
00:35:06,240 --> 00:35:10,320
that gives us some

920
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:12,880
indication of what the modus operandi is

921
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:14,320
if we if we look at most of the world

922
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:17,280
it's it's in the camp

923
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:19,119
of anglo-american power or the new world

924
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:22,160
order whatever you like to call it

925
00:35:19,119 --> 00:35:24,480
the hangouts or holdouts are iran

926
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:26,880
syria where they failed and i think

927
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:30,079
there's a question around u.s

928
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:33,280
military superiority russia

929
00:35:30,079 --> 00:35:34,560
doesn't advertise its military technical

930
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,160
capability

931
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:38,560
but i think what we've seen through the

932
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:40,160
syrian conflict is that america doesn't

933
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:42,720
have it all its own way

934
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:44,320
to some extent its military superiority

935
00:35:42,720 --> 00:35:46,400
is something of a myth

936
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:48,000
and if you look at the acceleration of

937
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:50,400
chinese technology

938
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:52,000
in the way they build infrastructure and

939
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,119
if they're applying the same sort of

940
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,359
techniques to

941
00:35:53,119 --> 00:35:57,440
weaponry then i don't think it's

942
00:35:55,359 --> 00:35:59,599
necessarily the case that

943
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:01,280
the u.s has unlimited military

944
00:35:59,599 --> 00:36:04,079
superiority or understanding

945
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,880
not two decades which was yasmin's

946
00:36:04,079 --> 00:36:07,119
estimation

947
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:08,079
that they have another 20 years no they

948
00:36:07,119 --> 00:36:10,560
have as the

949
00:36:08,079 --> 00:36:11,680
world is currently in a state of great

950
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:14,240
flux

951
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:15,440
and i think that we're looking at a

952
00:36:14,240 --> 00:36:18,800
pivotal point

953
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:21,040
in civilization as we know it

954
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:23,280
and one of the things that doesn't come

955
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:24,160
into this argument directly but is very

956
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,960
relevant

957
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:29,040
is the structure of money and how money

958
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:31,599
is controlled and the central banks

959
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,480
have effectively been driving the global

960
00:36:31,599 --> 00:36:35,359
economy

961
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:36,880
they've been bailing out the economy

962
00:36:35,359 --> 00:36:38,960
since 2008.

963
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,000
it's a trick that comes to an end so

964
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,760
what we're talking about

965
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,280
is the collapse of the economic system

966
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,760
but at the same time

967
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:47,359
there are decentralizing forces so there

968
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:49,200
is this global cartel

969
00:36:47,359 --> 00:36:50,960
of immune banks but they're under

970
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:53,839
challenged from other forces which are

971
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:57,280
seeking to decentralize money power well

972
00:36:53,839 --> 00:37:00,800
china is now beginning to sell american

973
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:03,599
debt the fed

974
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:05,280
has threatened promised depending on

975
00:37:03,599 --> 00:37:09,599
your point of view to move into

976
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:12,079
negative interest territory

977
00:37:09,599 --> 00:37:14,160
the dollar is under challenge in terms

978
00:37:12,079 --> 00:37:16,320
of its global hegemony is it not

979
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:18,480
well certainly and i would say that goes

980
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:20,640
for sterling it goes for the euro

981
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:22,480
it goes for japanese yen if you continue

982
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:24,320
to issue currency

983
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:26,079
it's a trick that gives a feel-good

984
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:28,800
factor in the stock markets not

985
00:37:26,079 --> 00:37:30,960
necessarily for the people

986
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,640
you know since 2008 people have got

987
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,720
progressively poorer and poorer

988
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:36,320
the middle classes too not just the

989
00:37:34,720 --> 00:37:38,480
working classes

990
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:40,320
but those at the top the plutocracy

991
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:43,119
which was described in a report by

992
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:44,720
citibank in 2006

993
00:37:43,119 --> 00:37:46,320
basically there are two economies so

994
00:37:44,720 --> 00:37:47,200
when you look at averages they're

995
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,880
meaningless

996
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:51,119
because there is the economy for the

997
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:53,040
rich luxury goods and all the rest of it

998
00:37:51,119 --> 00:37:54,320
and then there is the economy that the

999
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,839
most people live in

1000
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,440
and what is happening at the moment

1001
00:37:55,839 --> 00:37:59,760
there is a lack of demand

1002
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:02,400
in the economy so we've got opposing

1003
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:05,200
forces we've got massive deflationary

1004
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,920
forces which already began before the

1005
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:09,040
the

1006
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:10,560
the so-called coronavirus um but at the

1007
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:12,400
same time we've got

1008
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:14,640
these central banks such as the federal

1009
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:16,400
reserve which started inflating its

1010
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:21,359
balance sheet its reserves

1011
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:23,599
in in september 2019 and sooner or later

1012
00:38:21,359 --> 00:38:25,040
money is all about confidence and when

1013
00:38:23,599 --> 00:38:26,800
confidence goes

1014
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:28,240
that's when everything falls apart and

1015
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:31,040
that's why you're hearing

1016
00:38:28,240 --> 00:38:32,000
mark ghani carney who's now moved to

1017
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:34,480
responsibility

1018
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:35,760
for climate and money talking about a

1019
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:38,560
digital currency

1020
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:39,359
a global digital currency related to

1021
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:43,200
energy

1022
00:38:39,359 --> 00:38:45,440
so the power money power has a plan

1023
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:48,000
which is a global currency but there are

1024
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:51,040
also decentralizing forces

1025
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,680
um self-interested forces that are doing

1026
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,839
this

1027
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:55,119
out of self-interest that are actually

1028
00:38:53,839 --> 00:38:57,119
chipping away at this

1029
00:38:55,119 --> 00:38:58,400
this concept of centralized money which

1030
00:38:57,119 --> 00:39:00,880
has been with us

1031
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:02,240
for hundreds of years let's uh get a

1032
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:04,960
view from across the

1033
00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:06,560
atlantic from wyatt reed who's in

1034
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:10,000
washington dc

1035
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:12,480
he is a dc based journalist who focuses

1036
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:15,920
on latin america but he's also the

1037
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:18,000
producer of by any means necessary

1038
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:19,040
on radio sputnik and a frequent

1039
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:22,240
contributor

1040
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:23,040
to the gray zone wyatt welcome to the

1041
00:39:22,240 --> 00:39:26,240
show

1042
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:28,960
how important do you think the export of

1043
00:39:26,240 --> 00:39:29,839
iranian fuel to venezuela will turn out

1044
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,839
to have been

1045
00:39:29,839 --> 00:39:33,359
the venezuelan government has achieved a

1046
00:39:31,839 --> 00:39:36,560
number of huge

1047
00:39:33,359 --> 00:39:38,240
pr victories um and you know not just

1048
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:39,920
propaganda victories but actual

1049
00:39:38,240 --> 00:39:42,000
victories for the working people of

1050
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:45,280
venezuela in the past few months

1051
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:48,320
uh after foiling this bizarre

1052
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:51,119
uh seemingly uh u.s

1053
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,440
backed or at le at the very least uh

1054
00:39:51,119 --> 00:39:54,000
this

1055
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:56,240
this attempted cue that had that the cia

1056
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:58,880
was aware of if nothing else uh was

1057
00:39:56,240 --> 00:40:02,240
aware of and did not did nothing to stop

1058
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:02,240
um as far as we can tell

1059
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:06,400
in addition to this sort of bay of

1060
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:09,760
piglets as it's being described

1061
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:13,040
uh just a few months ago we now have

1062
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:16,319
iran and venezuela cooperating together

1063
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:17,200
to alleviate these tremendous gas

1064
00:40:16,319 --> 00:40:18,880
shortages

1065
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:20,640
he recently spoke with venezuelan

1066
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:24,720
foreign minister jorge ariasa

1067
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:27,359
he described this uh campaign

1068
00:40:24,720 --> 00:40:28,720
this fight this battle being waged as

1069
00:40:27,359 --> 00:40:31,760
tremendously important

1070
00:40:28,720 --> 00:40:32,560
to the venezuelan people um and as

1071
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:36,079
really

1072
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:40,319
sort of the the first step in this new

1073
00:40:36,079 --> 00:40:43,200
economic order that venezuela

1074
00:40:40,319 --> 00:40:44,720
and other non-aligned movement countries

1075
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:47,680
are hoping to lay out

1076
00:40:44,720 --> 00:40:49,440
going forward so yes tremendously

1077
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:50,240
important not just for the venezuelan

1078
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:53,040
people

1079
00:40:50,240 --> 00:40:53,520
in addition to the gasoline we now have

1080
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,119
uh

1081
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,720
crucial parts that are going to be able

1082
00:40:55,119 --> 00:41:00,640
to repair

1083
00:40:56,720 --> 00:41:04,079
venezuela's uh oil refineries and get

1084
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:07,119
that sector back in motion so important

1085
00:41:04,079 --> 00:41:09,760
from the perspective of just allowing

1086
00:41:07,119 --> 00:41:11,599
mobility within venezuelan society and

1087
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,560
also getting that country's economy back

1088
00:41:11,599 --> 00:41:16,319
up and running

1089
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:18,480
how is this being portrayed in the u.s

1090
00:41:16,319 --> 00:41:19,520
do people know about it what do they

1091
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,839
think about it

1092
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:22,720
and might it lead to still more

1093
00:41:21,839 --> 00:41:26,400
aggression

1094
00:41:22,720 --> 00:41:29,280
by the united states yeah i think we see

1095
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:31,040
frustration really frustration anger uh

1096
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:32,160
impotence was a great word from the

1097
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:35,839
washington post

1098
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:37,839
they are uh not saying

1099
00:41:35,839 --> 00:41:39,760
more because there's not much to say

1100
00:41:37,839 --> 00:41:42,880
that isn't you know we lost

1101
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:43,760
this is embarrassing uh so you know

1102
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:46,079
we're seeing

1103
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:46,800
a move yesterday this was reported in

1104
00:41:46,079 --> 00:41:48,880
bloomberg

1105
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,920
um to prepare for the trump

1106
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,640
administration

1107
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:53,599
to is preparing sanctions on as many as

1108
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:56,000
50 oil

1109
00:41:53,599 --> 00:41:58,400
and fuel tankers as part of an effort to

1110
00:41:56,000 --> 00:42:00,240
cut trade between iran and venezuela

1111
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:01,599
according to a person familiar with the

1112
00:42:00,240 --> 00:42:03,040
matter so

1113
00:42:01,599 --> 00:42:05,440
unclear who exactly that is this is

1114
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:06,079
bloomberg reporting it um and sanctions

1115
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:09,119
again

1116
00:42:06,079 --> 00:42:11,760
predictable right uh but but this is

1117
00:42:09,119 --> 00:42:13,280
kind of the point of the whole

1118
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:15,599
of the whole struggle that we're

1119
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:18,240
witnessing the sanctions

1120
00:42:15,599 --> 00:42:19,839
are their only recourse at this point um

1121
00:42:18,240 --> 00:42:22,960
and they've already been proven

1122
00:42:19,839 --> 00:42:24,400
really to not be willing to back it up

1123
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:26,640
with the military force that would be

1124
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:29,119
necessary to make this more meaningful

1125
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:31,920
so they they've already exposed

1126
00:42:29,119 --> 00:42:35,760
themselves you know as as mao zeitung

1127
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:36,560
as a paper tiger of an imperialist paper

1128
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:38,880
tiger

1129
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:40,480
so you see now that there are certain

1130
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:44,319
actions that they cannot do

1131
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:47,599
and just by failing to

1132
00:42:44,319 --> 00:42:49,280
attack venezuela or iran to to aggress

1133
00:42:47,599 --> 00:42:52,960
against the militarily

1134
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:56,079
for the supposed sin of daring to

1135
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:59,520
cooperate on matters of trade uh just by

1136
00:42:56,079 --> 00:43:01,920
not reacting to that well they are now

1137
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:03,599
opening the door to any country in the

1138
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:05,040
world and there are a lot of them which

1139
00:43:03,599 --> 00:43:06,880
face u.s sanctions

1140
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:09,040
now defying those sanctions and knowing

1141
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:10,160
well uh nothing happened to venezuela

1142
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:12,400
nothing happened to iran

1143
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:13,920
they slap more sanctions on us well

1144
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,520
they're already sanctioning us you know

1145
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:15,760
what we're just gonna have to keep doing

1146
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:17,920
it

1147
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:19,920
and go forward and let the u.s worry

1148
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:22,400
about itself

1149
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:24,480
william uh uh chairman mao was

1150
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:26,319
definitely premature to say the least in

1151
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:29,200
the 1960s to

1152
00:43:26,319 --> 00:43:31,760
describe the united states as a paper

1153
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:35,200
tiger it's eaten a lot of people since

1154
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:37,119
mao said that

1155
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:38,560
if not a paper tiger certainly an

1156
00:43:37,119 --> 00:43:41,920
enfeebled one

1157
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:45,200
a cornered one a wounded one

1158
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:46,480
why are you so anxious that they might

1159
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:49,599
fancy

1160
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:52,000
wading ashore in your country

1161
00:43:49,599 --> 00:43:53,760
wouldn't that risk another vietnam and

1162
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:55,839
therefore another defeat

1163
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:58,319
they they they are convinced that

1164
00:43:55,839 --> 00:44:00,800
venezuela is an easy piece of

1165
00:43:58,319 --> 00:44:01,920
food that's what they said about it they

1166
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:03,680
keep they keep telling

1167
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:05,119
everybody that and they keep telling

1168
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,720
themselves because they

1169
00:44:05,119 --> 00:44:10,000
they keep i don't know where they keep

1170
00:44:06,720 --> 00:44:13,440
gathering this ill intelligence

1171
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:16,800
my my concern is based on that

1172
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:18,880
tradition of gambles and mistakes

1173
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:20,240
they will launch another one because

1174
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:24,000
they are convinced they can

1175
00:44:20,240 --> 00:44:27,200
quickly done it they think

1176
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:28,480
for a reason they will be welcome with

1177
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:31,520
victories

1178
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:34,800
and they forgot how we treat nixon

1179
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:37,200
when he came to caracas he was

1180
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:38,800
pushed out he wasn't embarrassed he

1181
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:42,160
didn't want to talk about the visit

1182
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:45,359
to caracas president nixon

1183
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:48,480
so why you want

1184
00:44:45,359 --> 00:44:52,079
to repeat the same mistake

1185
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:55,760
well look uh many people are puzzled

1186
00:44:52,079 --> 00:44:59,119
at the role of this guan uh guido

1187
00:44:55,760 --> 00:45:00,160
as calvin mentioned earlier 50 countries

1188
00:44:59,119 --> 00:45:03,200
in the world

1189
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:06,400
continue to recognize him

1190
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:07,920
as the president it looked pretty stupid

1191
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:11,440
at the time

1192
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:14,400
it is it looks utterly farcical

1193
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:16,160
now what are the what are the people in

1194
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:17,839
the street in venezuela

1195
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:19,599
think of this man and how come he's

1196
00:45:17,839 --> 00:45:22,640
still at liberty

1197
00:45:19,599 --> 00:45:25,599
uh to walk around calling for

1198
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:28,720
the invasion of his own country uh we

1199
00:45:25,599 --> 00:45:30,640
learn from our own mistakes when we

1200
00:45:28,720 --> 00:45:32,800
the position of huawei do was first

1201
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:34,480
occupied by leopoldo lopez

1202
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:36,560
and leopold europe launched this

1203
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:38,960
guarimbas that violent protest

1204
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:40,160
planned well ahead and they pretend to

1205
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:42,240
be spontaneous

1206
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:45,440
but there were logistics arriving to

1207
00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:48,400
caracas from miami

1208
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:50,000
money was donated well beforehand before

1209
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:52,720
uh 2014.

1210
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:54,160
he was in 2013 in august doing rallies

1211
00:45:52,720 --> 00:45:54,960
in miami gathering money for this

1212
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:59,680
warimbas in

1213
00:45:54,960 --> 00:46:02,560
in january february 2014

1214
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:03,440
and he was made prisoner because he

1215
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:05,359
actually

1216
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:07,200
uh organized the killing of 43

1217
00:46:05,359 --> 00:46:08,960
venezuelans

1218
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:10,640
he was not a killer but he could

1219
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:14,319
adjuvate to the killing

1220
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:18,000
so he was charged and condemned for this

1221
00:46:14,319 --> 00:46:21,040
death he became an international

1222
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:22,960
human rights hero

1223
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:25,839
and then we could understand why the

1224
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:27,440
media the bbc the guardian invest so

1225
00:46:25,839 --> 00:46:29,280
much in protecting

1226
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:31,280
a vigilant leopoldo lopez and create the

1227
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:33,599
offend as a political prisoner

1228
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:34,880
no no this guy organized the killing of

1229
00:46:33,599 --> 00:46:37,280
venezuelans

1230
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:38,480
he is a criminal so we couldn't detangle

1231
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:41,440
these two

1232
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:43,520
and was impossible to offer more more

1233
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:45,359
evidence that convinced the media to

1234
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:48,240
reverse the situation because was some

1235
00:46:45,359 --> 00:46:49,680
a political plot so the same thing is

1236
00:46:48,240 --> 00:46:53,040
happening with waido

1237
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:55,760
so why though will be potable again

1238
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:57,680
will became a political asset again he

1239
00:46:55,760 --> 00:47:00,000
became a prisoner

1240
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:00,960
so we cannot put him in jail

1241
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:03,599
unfortunately

1242
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:04,800
he has all the records to be in jail

1243
00:47:03,599 --> 00:47:07,119
long time ago

1244
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:08,319
but at the moment we put him in jail he

1245
00:47:07,119 --> 00:47:10,640
will become

1246
00:47:08,319 --> 00:47:12,560
instead of a liability became an asset

1247
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:13,040
again and we don't want to give that to

1248
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:14,720
them

1249
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:17,359
and the other thing he's totally

1250
00:47:14,720 --> 00:47:21,200
impotent he cannot do anything

1251
00:47:17,359 --> 00:47:23,839
he's a laughable stock so in terms of

1252
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:26,880
legal stuff he he should be in jail i

1253
00:47:23,839 --> 00:47:29,359
think he will be in jail eventually

1254
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:30,640
last question for all of you and very

1255
00:47:29,359 --> 00:47:34,000
briefly

1256
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:37,599
uh with 2020 vision

1257
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:41,680
if we were to hold this program

1258
00:47:37,599 --> 00:47:45,520
again say in two years time

1259
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:48,640
uh will the united states have

1260
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:52,000
prevailed either in iran or

1261
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:53,520
in venezuela calvin it's always a risk

1262
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:55,280
at predicting the future george but i'll

1263
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:58,559
have a go the answer is

1264
00:47:55,280 --> 00:48:01,680
no in either case um

1265
00:47:58,559 --> 00:48:03,920
i don't believe the us is likely to

1266
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:06,720
launch a military invasion

1267
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:09,839
of iran it may well take some military

1268
00:48:06,720 --> 00:48:13,599
action stopping short of an invasion

1269
00:48:09,839 --> 00:48:16,480
the same situation applies in venezuela

1270
00:48:13,599 --> 00:48:18,640
but unless the u.s is willing to put

1271
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:20,319
boots on the ground in venezuela

1272
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:22,160
it won't succeed because if they kill

1273
00:48:20,319 --> 00:48:23,920
maduro and they've tried several times

1274
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:27,200
the drone attack the recent

1275
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:30,160
mercenary excursion if they kill maduro

1276
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:30,800
simply another maduro will take his

1277
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:32,640
place

1278
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:35,040
the venezuelan army is half a million

1279
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:35,680
strong it's united if it was going to

1280
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:38,400
crack

1281
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:40,960
it would have cracked by now ten times

1282
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:44,000
that many civilians are organized in

1283
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:47,200
citizens militias these people are

1284
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:49,440
highly motivated highly politicized

1285
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:51,280
they understand what the issues are and

1286
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:52,319
they'll fight if the u.s goes into

1287
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:55,760
venezuela

1288
00:48:52,319 --> 00:48:57,520
there will be a catastrophic bloodbath

1289
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:59,520
but even if they did they still won't

1290
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:02,079
win clive

1291
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:03,839
um i similarly am loathe to make

1292
00:49:02,079 --> 00:49:05,680
predictions but i'd say this is a

1293
00:49:03,839 --> 00:49:07,680
question relating to the world rather

1294
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:09,760
than specifically venezuela

1295
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:10,960
that the world is in a in a state of

1296
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:13,200
transition

1297
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:14,960
and we're going to go through the

1298
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:16,400
western world something that we've not

1299
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:18,640
experienced

1300
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:20,319
in our lifetimes but our parents

1301
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:22,720
generations experienced

1302
00:49:20,319 --> 00:49:23,920
the sort of dislocation that arises from

1303
00:49:22,720 --> 00:49:28,240
economic collapse

1304
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:31,280
and internal warfare so i think if

1305
00:49:28,240 --> 00:49:33,440
the forces of decentralization prevail

1306
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:35,760
then venezuela and many more countries

1307
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:37,760
will be free all of those that have been

1308
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:39,040
under oppression whether we're talking

1309
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:41,200
about the kurds

1310
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:42,400
across the middle east or any the

1311
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:44,880
palestinians

1312
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:45,760
if the forces of decentralization

1313
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,440
prevail

1314
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:49,920
then we're looking in a much better

1315
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:50,880
world for everyone including venezuela

1316
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:54,800
and iran

1317
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:57,760
william last word to you um

1318
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:59,359
we have to embrace for impact the

1319
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:01,599
situation will get

1320
00:49:59,359 --> 00:50:04,240
very bad in some point in this year next

1321
00:50:01,599 --> 00:50:07,040
year the united states is launching a

1322
00:50:04,240 --> 00:50:08,000
massive bailout of 9 trillions into the

1323
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:10,800
economy

1324
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:12,720
and will create a massive inflation

1325
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:13,599
factor with inside united states that's

1326
00:50:12,720 --> 00:50:15,920
my

1327
00:50:13,599 --> 00:50:17,520
my perception of the crisis so the

1328
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:19,119
foreign policy of united states is a

1329
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:20,559
reflection of the internal policy

1330
00:50:19,119 --> 00:50:22,319
domestic policy

1331
00:50:20,559 --> 00:50:23,920
the only thing i want to say is in two

1332
00:50:22,319 --> 00:50:27,040
years time

1333
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:27,440
only solidarity between nations will

1334
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:30,240
help

1335
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:31,920
us to get through this is a massive

1336
00:50:30,240 --> 00:50:33,520
shock wave coming

1337
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:35,359
we have to embrace for impact and we

1338
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:37,599
have to embrace together

1339
00:50:35,359 --> 00:50:40,000
so the solidarity that i see between

1340
00:50:37,599 --> 00:50:43,040
iran and venezuela i bless it

1341
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:43,839
i bless her heartfully because even in

1342
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:46,400
the most

1343
00:50:43,839 --> 00:50:48,319
dramatic circumstances with the most

1344
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:51,440
atrocious penalties

1345
00:50:48,319 --> 00:50:53,520
with more punishment in our ways

1346
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:55,280
we help each other and we want to

1347
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:56,880
everybody understand that regardless of

1348
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:59,119
the language the religion the

1349
00:50:56,880 --> 00:51:00,800
the pole of the planet you live if we

1350
00:50:59,119 --> 00:51:02,640
help each other we will get through this

1351
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:06,000
together

1352
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:09,040
fasten your seat belts embrace for

1353
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:10,880
impact impact it's been marvelous for me

1354
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:11,680
i hope it was for you i've been george

1355
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:14,720
galloway

1356
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:16,240
this is alma dean television and you

1357
00:51:14,720 --> 00:51:23,839
have been a wonderful audience thanks

1358
00:51:16,240 --> 00:51:23,839
for watching

1359
00:51:24,820 --> 00:51:27,530
[Music]

1360
00:51:27,110 --> 00:51:35,710
[Applause]

1361
00:51:27,530 --> 00:51:35,710
[Music]

1362
00:51:36,720 --> 00:51:38,800
you