1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:15,009 [Music] 2 00:00:15,109 --> 00:00:19,710 I'm action Ratan three and fourteen 3 00:00:18,180 --> 00:00:21,510 years to the day that a Labour 4 00:00:19,710 --> 00:00:24,000 government took Britain to war in Iraq 5 00:00:21,510 --> 00:00:26,189 killing or displacing or wounding 6 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,710 millions this is going underground 7 00:00:26,189 --> 00:00:30,179 coming up in today's show we speak to 8 00:00:28,710 --> 00:00:31,830 the vice president of Britain stop the 9 00:00:30,179 --> 00:00:33,540 war moves with George Galloway as 10 00:00:31,830 --> 00:00:35,760 president Trump prepares to meet with 11 00:00:33,540 --> 00:00:38,489 iraqi prime minister haider al-abadi in 12 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:40,680 the White House and months ago I'd have 13 00:00:38,489 --> 00:00:42,300 said to the party chairman clarify the 14 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:44,190 situation make a statement take 15 00:00:42,300 --> 00:00:46,710 responsibility on behalf of the party 16 00:00:44,190 --> 00:00:48,719 and clearly that hasn't happened and the 17 00:00:46,710 --> 00:00:51,629 MPs of the lefkosa died this is the 18 00:00:48,719 --> 00:00:54,239 government in in normal times in crisis 19 00:00:51,629 --> 00:00:56,670 and chaos our job is affect both back 20 00:00:54,239 --> 00:00:59,309 and make clear that were there is an 21 00:00:56,670 --> 00:01:01,800 alternative just as the full budget had 22 00:00:59,309 --> 00:01:03,000 to this new cabinet so the u-turn and 23 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:05,489 the budget should have gone through 24 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:07,170 curbless and it didn't we're on the 25 00:01:05,489 --> 00:01:08,490 green outside the UK Parliament with 26 00:01:07,170 --> 00:01:10,710 labour Ettore and a Scottish 27 00:01:08,490 --> 00:01:12,540 nationalists all that coming up but 28 00:01:10,710 --> 00:01:15,180 first in the early hours of the morning 29 00:01:12,540 --> 00:01:17,520 14 years ago today the United States 30 00:01:15,180 --> 00:01:19,560 together with the UK Australia and 31 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:23,280 Poland began military operations in Iraq 32 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:26,460 dubbed Operation Iraqi liberation or oil 33 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:29,009 this after an overwhelming vote in this 34 00:01:26,460 --> 00:01:32,310 place - that invasion joining me back in 35 00:01:29,009 --> 00:01:34,560 the studio is George Galloway George 36 00:01:32,310 --> 00:01:38,189 welcome back to going underground let's 37 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:40,770 just begin with you reminding us about 38 00:01:38,189 --> 00:01:43,250 your film the killings of Tony Blair 39 00:01:40,770 --> 00:01:45,420 this was crowdfunded kick-started by 40 00:01:43,250 --> 00:01:48,450 crowdfunding it raised a record amount 41 00:01:45,420 --> 00:01:50,850 of money 165 thousand pounds when he 42 00:01:48,450 --> 00:01:53,579 asked for 50 so thousands of people 43 00:01:50,850 --> 00:01:57,630 wanted to participate in the killings of 44 00:01:53,579 --> 00:02:01,159 Tony Blair I sold my house to finish the 45 00:01:57,630 --> 00:02:04,860 film and it's now doing very well on 46 00:02:01,159 --> 00:02:07,619 digital download on DVD not too many 47 00:02:04,860 --> 00:02:09,899 cinemas showed it you know across the 48 00:02:07,619 --> 00:02:11,230 world at film festivals and surprising 49 00:02:09,899 --> 00:02:13,000 the 14 years 50 00:02:11,230 --> 00:02:16,180 day of the Iraq war they wouldn't be 51 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:19,379 more interested way well partly the 52 00:02:16,180 --> 00:02:23,500 budget that we have to promote it is so 53 00:02:19,379 --> 00:02:25,000 really poor that a lot of people as yet 54 00:02:23,500 --> 00:02:27,519 don't know that it's there but it's kind 55 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:30,099 of film that will last for years it's 56 00:02:27,519 --> 00:02:33,879 never going to be out of date it is that 57 00:02:30,099 --> 00:02:35,769 document of the crimes of Tony Blair and 58 00:02:33,879 --> 00:02:38,049 I think it's rather well done certainly 59 00:02:35,769 --> 00:02:41,110 it's been critically very well received 60 00:02:38,049 --> 00:02:44,049 and if you didn't like tony blair before 61 00:02:41,110 --> 00:02:47,049 you watch it i promise you you'll be 62 00:02:44,049 --> 00:02:48,910 uncontrollable with anger at the end I 63 00:02:47,049 --> 00:02:52,390 talked to a Labor backbenchers a lot of 64 00:02:48,910 --> 00:02:54,220 them will say Araki is his old stuff the 65 00:02:52,390 --> 00:02:56,140 UK public administration committee 66 00:02:54,220 --> 00:02:59,200 reporting the Chilkoot failed to provide 67 00:02:56,140 --> 00:03:02,680 closure on Iraq and that Iraq left an 68 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:05,079 indelible scar in UK politics why do you 69 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:07,359 think Blair hasn't been arrested that 70 00:03:05,079 --> 00:03:09,489 uncharged well Parliament contains a 71 00:03:07,359 --> 00:03:12,280 very large number of his supporters on 72 00:03:09,489 --> 00:03:16,569 both sides of the house as Jeremy Corbyn 73 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:18,790 finds out every day the Acolytes of Tony 74 00:03:16,569 --> 00:03:21,099 Blair are well dug in in the labour 75 00:03:18,790 --> 00:03:23,230 administration the National Executive 76 00:03:21,099 --> 00:03:25,150 Committee and of course overwhelmingly 77 00:03:23,230 --> 00:03:28,810 in Parliament they still support the 78 00:03:25,150 --> 00:03:32,440 Urraco they do and Blair still supports 79 00:03:28,810 --> 00:03:34,840 he wouldn't do anything different in 80 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:36,639 terms of the invasion you might in terms 81 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:39,400 of the occupation because his point is 82 00:03:36,639 --> 00:03:41,109 the gain and again things are better for 83 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,730 Iraqis now than they would have been 84 00:03:41,109 --> 00:03:45,790 under saddam hussein yes but only a 85 00:03:42,730 --> 00:03:47,260 madman believes that and in our film the 86 00:03:45,790 --> 00:03:50,380 right honourable David Davis now a 87 00:03:47,260 --> 00:03:53,889 cabinet member states explicitly that 88 00:03:50,380 --> 00:03:56,859 Iraq was clearly better off before than 89 00:03:53,889 --> 00:04:00,069 it is now there is no Iraq now it's 90 00:03:56,859 --> 00:04:03,430 atomized into fiefdom 91 00:04:00,069 --> 00:04:08,560 much of it still controlled by Isis and 92 00:04:03,430 --> 00:04:10,750 al-qaeda and its mindset has deeply dug 93 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:12,760 in now in Iraq you caught them are 94 00:04:10,750 --> 00:04:14,769 saying well it's all stuff the killing 95 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:18,669 of a million people can't be old stuff 96 00:04:14,769 --> 00:04:20,530 the creation of Isis cannot be old stuff 97 00:04:18,669 --> 00:04:23,020 because we're living with the 98 00:04:20,530 --> 00:04:24,170 consequences of it and will do for many 99 00:04:23,020 --> 00:04:26,990 decades 100 00:04:24,170 --> 00:04:27,620 to come and of course it's not just the 101 00:04:26,990 --> 00:04:30,770 war 102 00:04:27,620 --> 00:04:33,050 it's the bankrupting or the political 103 00:04:30,770 --> 00:04:35,390 class on both sides of the Atlantic 104 00:04:33,050 --> 00:04:37,400 which led to Trump in the United States 105 00:04:35,390 --> 00:04:39,860 it's one the reasons for brexit also 106 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:42,500 they no longer believe when the Great 107 00:04:39,860 --> 00:04:45,800 and the good tell them something the men 108 00:04:42,500 --> 00:04:47,840 in suits the experts opined that this or 109 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:49,670 that is the way to go people don't 110 00:04:47,840 --> 00:04:54,020 believe that anymore and that's directly 111 00:04:49,670 --> 00:04:58,880 related to Iraq don't forget that just 112 00:04:54,020 --> 00:05:02,120 over 14 years ago we were - millions of 113 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:04,070 us on the streets of London we didn't 114 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:06,650 know then what we know now that there 115 00:05:04,070 --> 00:05:09,860 were no weapons of mass destruction but 116 00:05:06,650 --> 00:05:10,430 we knew in our water that we were being 117 00:05:09,860 --> 00:05:14,210 lied to 118 00:05:10,430 --> 00:05:16,280 and no good good common Authority of the 119 00:05:14,210 --> 00:05:18,560 country and that this is related to the 120 00:05:16,280 --> 00:05:20,210 hijacking of civil society as it were I 121 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:23,180 mean do you think of Prime Minister 122 00:05:20,210 --> 00:05:26,450 today could do that because whatever the 123 00:05:23,180 --> 00:05:28,940 size of the March is 53 percent 54% of 124 00:05:26,450 --> 00:05:31,790 the time wanted a war in Iraq according 125 00:05:28,940 --> 00:05:34,160 to polls well they have gone on to do it 126 00:05:31,790 --> 00:05:37,040 again and again I mean it up they did it 127 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:39,530 in Libya gave it Cameron this time but 128 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:41,420 using exactly the same arguments echoed 129 00:05:39,530 --> 00:05:43,670 by exactly the same journalists and 130 00:05:41,420 --> 00:05:47,330 broadcasters and look how that turned 131 00:05:43,670 --> 00:05:51,050 out arguably Libya's in an even worse 132 00:05:47,330 --> 00:05:53,630 state than Iraq at the end of it all and 133 00:05:51,050 --> 00:05:55,850 with more direct consequences for Europe 134 00:05:53,630 --> 00:05:59,270 it's and Mediterranean countries and 135 00:05:55,850 --> 00:06:02,750 then Syria they fanned the flames of 136 00:05:59,270 --> 00:06:06,050 extremism they built a gigantic army of 137 00:06:02,750 --> 00:06:08,450 terrorists many of them foreign fighters 138 00:06:06,050 --> 00:06:10,880 who are all heading back to their own 139 00:06:08,450 --> 00:06:13,640 countries and wickel that happens in 140 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:16,610 substantial numbers then we'll realize 141 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:18,500 just how mad our policy in the Middle 142 00:06:16,610 --> 00:06:20,480 East has been you campaigned against 143 00:06:18,500 --> 00:06:21,980 Saddam Hussein then you campaigned 144 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:24,980 against the war the president of the 145 00:06:21,980 --> 00:06:27,470 Stop the War Coalition was Tony Benn 146 00:06:24,980 --> 00:06:29,060 what does it make you feel like when you 147 00:06:27,470 --> 00:06:32,150 just mentioned Libya in Syria there that 148 00:06:29,060 --> 00:06:34,280 his son mooches still presumably on the 149 00:06:32,150 --> 00:06:38,660 backbenches arrival to Jeremy Corbyn 150 00:06:34,280 --> 00:06:40,970 made speeches lauded by the BBC and the 151 00:06:38,660 --> 00:06:41,900 Murdoch press for supporting wars on 152 00:06:40,970 --> 00:06:44,120 Libya and Syria 153 00:06:41,900 --> 00:06:47,060 well that was particularly painful no 154 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:49,010 doubt although Hillary been supported 155 00:06:47,060 --> 00:06:50,800 the war at the time even when his father 156 00:06:49,010 --> 00:06:53,180 was the leader of the anti-war movement 157 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:55,580 I'm not sure what kind of family 158 00:06:53,180 --> 00:06:57,050 relations that produced certainly 159 00:06:55,580 --> 00:06:59,540 inconceivable to me 160 00:06:57,050 --> 00:07:01,400 but hey labor have funny attitudes on 161 00:06:59,540 --> 00:07:05,360 that one Miliband stabbed the other 162 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:09,110 Miliband in the back so familial loyalty 163 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:12,320 is not their strong point it makes me 164 00:07:09,110 --> 00:07:14,570 feel even worse though when members of 165 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:17,750 parliament say to me as many many did I 166 00:07:14,570 --> 00:07:20,270 wish we'd listened to you over Iraq I 167 00:07:17,750 --> 00:07:22,580 want to say to them what kind of member 168 00:07:20,270 --> 00:07:25,160 of parliament are you that can be so 169 00:07:22,580 --> 00:07:27,860 easily led into such a gigantic 170 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:29,600 disaster I believe the Iraq war was the 171 00:07:27,860 --> 00:07:32,540 biggest mistake since the first world 172 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:36,470 war in British history and the first 173 00:07:32,540 --> 00:07:38,420 world war led ineluctably to our steady 174 00:07:36,470 --> 00:07:40,730 weakening as a country in fact you can 175 00:07:38,420 --> 00:07:43,400 trace the decline of Britain to the 176 00:07:40,730 --> 00:07:46,310 first world war and the invasion and 177 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:48,590 occupation of Iraq is the the next 178 00:07:46,310 --> 00:07:52,190 biggest blunder and the next biggest 179 00:07:48,590 --> 00:07:53,660 crime see nearly up to today the 14th 180 00:07:52,190 --> 00:07:57,770 anniversary 181 00:07:53,660 --> 00:08:00,020 there was a monument and ceremony for 182 00:07:57,770 --> 00:08:02,600 the veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan 183 00:08:00,020 --> 00:08:06,620 Tony Blair was an honored guest the 184 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:08,360 queen said and I quote Britain 185 00:08:06,620 --> 00:08:11,600 endeavoured to contribute peace and 186 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:14,750 stability to Iraq she should never have 187 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:17,390 said that because I don't think that she 188 00:08:14,750 --> 00:08:20,420 believes that Iraq has been utterly 189 00:08:17,390 --> 00:08:23,780 destroyed and the extremism it has 190 00:08:20,420 --> 00:08:26,330 brought forth has cascaded around the 191 00:08:23,780 --> 00:08:28,220 world even on to our own streets so no 192 00:08:26,330 --> 00:08:31,190 one in the right mind thinks that we 193 00:08:28,220 --> 00:08:34,340 contributed to peace or stability in 194 00:08:31,190 --> 00:08:37,340 Iraq and the Queen should not have said 195 00:08:34,340 --> 00:08:38,840 that even adding insult to injury I 196 00:08:37,340 --> 00:08:41,810 don't know if you've seen the monument 197 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:45,350 but the soldier in bronze that's carved 198 00:08:41,810 --> 00:08:47,360 chiseled out there there's a remarkable 199 00:08:45,350 --> 00:08:49,010 ambulance to Tony Blair because you 200 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,690 criticized the memorial anyway even if 201 00:08:49,010 --> 00:08:53,780 they had come what memorial do you think 202 00:08:50,690 --> 00:08:56,720 there should be though Britain's war and 203 00:08:53,780 --> 00:09:00,140 only fitting memorial to the Iraq war is 204 00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:02,120 Tony Blair on trial nothing else will do 205 00:09:00,140 --> 00:09:06,200 and as long as God gives me breath and 206 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:09,710 after me my many sons we will never stop 207 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:11,060 until justice has been done I should say 208 00:09:09,710 --> 00:09:12,800 that your film also makes clear that 209 00:09:11,060 --> 00:09:15,650 it's not of course just Tony Blair's 210 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:18,260 fault it's a structure the memorial you 211 00:09:15,650 --> 00:09:22,640 just spoke about is sponsored by BAE 212 00:09:18,260 --> 00:09:25,760 Systems and the Murdoch Sun newspaper is 213 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:28,400 it still these structures that people 214 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:30,020 should be wary of let alone individuals 215 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:33,020 because the coup could not have happened 216 00:09:30,020 --> 00:09:35,540 if the people in the institutions had 217 00:09:33,020 --> 00:09:38,870 not gone along with it you see Joe had a 218 00:09:35,540 --> 00:09:40,730 long parade of people in the civil 219 00:09:38,870 --> 00:09:42,860 service Foreign Office intelligence 220 00:09:40,730 --> 00:09:44,360 community in the military saying that 221 00:09:42,860 --> 00:09:47,150 they always knew that this was a bad 222 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:50,000 idea but they didn't tell us so at the 223 00:09:47,150 --> 00:09:53,770 time and if they had it might not have 224 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:57,350 gone ahead in our film the Honourable 225 00:09:53,770 --> 00:09:59,840 former ambassador Craig Murray quotes 226 00:09:57,350 --> 00:10:05,810 the former head of the Middle East desk 227 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:10,280 in the Foreign Office saying that WMD 228 00:10:05,810 --> 00:10:12,440 the claims were he asked him is it truly 229 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:14,590 ok don't comes on a show quite a bit yes 230 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:16,880 and he's from Dundee as I am a 231 00:10:14,590 --> 00:10:21,290 remarkable number of Scottish people in 232 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:24,110 this story but he served bill as years 233 00:10:21,290 --> 00:10:25,850 now was asked by Craig Murray is it true 234 00:10:24,110 --> 00:10:28,580 about weapons of mass destruction and he 235 00:10:25,850 --> 00:10:30,740 said of course not it's box well that 236 00:10:28,580 --> 00:10:33,920 means the very top of the Foreign Office 237 00:10:30,740 --> 00:10:36,620 was wilfully keeping silent while a 238 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:39,440 prime minister lied to the country and 239 00:10:36,620 --> 00:10:41,690 to the Armed Forces was leading us into 240 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:43,970 a disaster and what kind of an 241 00:10:41,690 --> 00:10:48,020 intelligence community tells us after 242 00:10:43,970 --> 00:10:52,100 the fact that they were wholly against 243 00:10:48,020 --> 00:10:54,680 this attack on Iraq and predicted as I 244 00:10:52,100 --> 00:10:56,930 did exactly what the outcome would be 245 00:10:54,680 --> 00:10:58,390 but did nothing to try and stop it 246 00:10:56,930 --> 00:11:01,899 that's why I call it a coup 247 00:10:58,390 --> 00:11:04,630 it was a hijacking of the Great Britain 248 00:11:01,899 --> 00:11:06,640 airliner and we flew it to destruction 249 00:11:04,630 --> 00:11:09,010 arguably the deep state in Reverse that 250 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:10,839 Donald Trump faces the Donald Trump 251 00:11:09,010 --> 00:11:15,579 keeps trying to say anyway that he was 252 00:11:10,839 --> 00:11:20,079 opposed to the Iraq war are their forces 253 00:11:15,579 --> 00:11:22,000 that within without outside his control 254 00:11:20,079 --> 00:11:24,339 in the United States that would get him 255 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:26,320 into Wars and therefore everywhere I'm 256 00:11:24,339 --> 00:11:28,120 sure about that and it's remarkable how 257 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:30,310 all these liberals that supported 258 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:33,490 Hillary Clinton are now in open embrace 259 00:11:30,310 --> 00:11:36,130 of the likes of John McCain and the CIA 260 00:11:33,490 --> 00:11:38,320 and the so-called intelligence community 261 00:11:36,130 --> 00:11:42,089 who used to be described by such 262 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:45,820 liberals as a nest of sand burglars and 263 00:11:42,089 --> 00:11:49,990 subvert us and coup makers they are now 264 00:11:45,820 --> 00:11:52,630 being embraced by liberals as a stick to 265 00:11:49,990 --> 00:11:55,839 beat Trump with what's Trump's flagship 266 00:11:52,630 --> 00:11:58,660 policy friendship with Russia and end to 267 00:11:55,839 --> 00:12:01,149 the escalation at least of tension with 268 00:11:58,660 --> 00:12:03,190 Russia well there's a big industry would 269 00:12:01,149 --> 00:12:05,740 lose a lot of money and a lot of power 270 00:12:03,190 --> 00:12:07,630 and influence if such a reduction in 271 00:12:05,740 --> 00:12:09,459 tension took place the whole 272 00:12:07,630 --> 00:12:13,209 military-industrial complex the 273 00:12:09,459 --> 00:12:15,430 intelligence community the war mongering 274 00:12:13,209 --> 00:12:17,350 politicians that all be out of a job one 275 00:12:15,430 --> 00:12:19,240 way or another if there was no longer 276 00:12:17,350 --> 00:12:21,220 any possibility of military 277 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:24,279 confrontation with Russia 278 00:12:21,220 --> 00:12:28,329 so whether they'll succeed in subverting 279 00:12:24,279 --> 00:12:30,850 wrecking Trump's flagship policy remains 280 00:12:28,329 --> 00:12:32,769 to be seen but that's definitely what 281 00:12:30,850 --> 00:12:35,589 they are up to George Galloway thank you 282 00:12:32,769 --> 00:12:37,600 the blood after the break we get the 283 00:12:35,589 --> 00:12:39,579 pulse of the UK Parliament after a week 284 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:41,949 of referendum threats political u-turns 285 00:12:39,579 --> 00:12:44,199 and the largest find by regulators ever 286 00:12:41,949 --> 00:12:45,910 of a British political party goal is 287 00:12:44,199 --> 00:12:47,270 amore gumming up invite to of going 288 00:12:45,910 --> 00:12:53,380 underground 289 00:12:47,270 --> 00:12:55,760 [Music] 290 00:12:53,380 --> 00:12:57,410 welcome back while following a week in 291 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:59,120 which the British Queen a sent it to 292 00:12:57,410 --> 00:13:00,800 brexit the government here you turned on 293 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,840 its budget Scottish and Irish 294 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:05,510 nationalists called for the breakup of 295 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:07,580 the UK and the largest fine by 296 00:13:05,510 --> 00:13:10,160 regulators ever of a British political 297 00:13:07,580 --> 00:13:11,750 party the Tories we took our cameras 298 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,850 outside Parliament to speak to 299 00:13:11,750 --> 00:13:16,720 representatives of the Conservatives 300 00:13:13,850 --> 00:13:18,890 labour and the Scottish National Party 301 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,210 with me now is the former vice chair of 302 00:13:18,890 --> 00:13:22,100 the Conservative Party the Conservative 303 00:13:20,210 --> 00:13:24,710 MP for the Ribble Valley 304 00:13:22,100 --> 00:13:26,720 Nigel Evans Nigel thanks for coming out 305 00:13:24,710 --> 00:13:27,980 on the green just before we get to 306 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:30,080 brexit matters 307 00:13:27,980 --> 00:13:33,020 what on earth of the Conservative Party 308 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:36,110 been doing let alone to resume chief of 309 00:13:33,020 --> 00:13:38,090 staff as regards election expenses yeah 310 00:13:36,110 --> 00:13:40,250 I mean it's it's not brilliant let's be 311 00:13:38,090 --> 00:13:44,360 fair but what's happened is that they've 312 00:13:40,250 --> 00:13:46,430 used a battle bus to ferry volunteers 313 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:49,180 around the country to help on the 314 00:13:46,430 --> 00:13:51,320 election campaigns in certain seats it 315 00:13:49,180 --> 00:13:53,660 should have been part of the national 316 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:55,130 expenses campaign and now it's being 317 00:13:53,660 --> 00:13:59,540 reinterpreted that it should have been 318 00:13:55,130 --> 00:14:00,770 logged as as a constituency evaluation 319 00:13:59,540 --> 00:14:03,530 each MP is allowed to spend about 320 00:14:00,770 --> 00:14:06,350 thirteen to fifteen thousand pounds per 321 00:14:03,530 --> 00:14:09,380 general election campaign and clearly a 322 00:14:06,350 --> 00:14:10,700 number of them have not put it in as to 323 00:14:09,380 --> 00:14:12,320 their local expenses because they were 324 00:14:10,700 --> 00:14:14,390 told it was a national expense so the 325 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:17,360 party's now been fined 70,000 pounds 326 00:14:14,390 --> 00:14:20,240 immediate by-elections the end of 327 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:22,460 tourism a no eruption no no because 328 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:24,800 other parties have also been in the 329 00:14:22,460 --> 00:14:26,000 large fines in history yeah other 330 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,770 parties have been fined as well I think 331 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,480 what it means and other parties use 332 00:14:27,770 --> 00:14:31,430 battle buses too they're all gonna have 333 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:33,200 to sit down and rework this through so 334 00:14:31,430 --> 00:14:35,480 that when the 2020 general election 335 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:37,280 comes they will know whether it's a 336 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:39,050 constituency expense or whether it's a 337 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:40,850 national expense I feel very sorry for 338 00:14:39,050 --> 00:14:42,080 the MPs involved they didn't ask for the 339 00:14:40,850 --> 00:14:43,940 battle bus you know the back there told 340 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,410 the battle bus is coming and they were 341 00:14:43,940 --> 00:14:47,150 told it was a national expense and now 342 00:14:45,410 --> 00:14:48,980 you know clearly each of them are being 343 00:14:47,150 --> 00:14:50,750 interviewed because they didn't include 344 00:14:48,980 --> 00:14:52,550 it in their local expenses because you 345 00:14:50,750 --> 00:14:53,870 feel sorry for the MPs only I think 346 00:14:52,550 --> 00:14:55,730 they've been led out to drive and I 347 00:14:53,870 --> 00:14:57,830 think the part I know resumes TV well 348 00:14:55,730 --> 00:14:59,420 well no I think the I think the party 349 00:14:57,830 --> 00:15:00,920 that we've got a new party chairman and 350 00:14:59,420 --> 00:15:02,000 I'm rather hoping that he will clarify 351 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:03,620 the situation 352 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:06,110 and take responsibility for the fact 353 00:15:03,620 --> 00:15:07,400 that during the general election it was 354 00:15:06,110 --> 00:15:09,650 their battle birth it was a national 355 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:11,960 expense it wasn't a local expense if you 356 00:15:09,650 --> 00:15:13,370 were vice-chair of the party still what 357 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,560 would you be saying not months ago I'd 358 00:15:13,370 --> 00:15:17,240 have said to the party chairman clarify 359 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:19,340 the situation make a statement take 360 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:22,010 responsibility on behalf of the party 361 00:15:19,340 --> 00:15:23,450 and clearly that hasn't happened and MPs 362 00:15:22,010 --> 00:15:25,340 have been left out to dry well we can't 363 00:15:23,450 --> 00:15:26,810 go into it much further what with the 364 00:15:25,340 --> 00:15:29,810 Crown Prosecution servicing the police 365 00:15:26,810 --> 00:15:32,630 now involved let's turn to brexit what 366 00:15:29,810 --> 00:15:34,850 do you think on reflection of the antics 367 00:15:32,630 --> 00:15:37,040 of the House of Lords as regards article 368 00:15:34,850 --> 00:15:38,480 15 well they they asked the House of 369 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:41,930 Commons to think again over two 370 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:43,790 amendments which we did last week and we 371 00:15:41,930 --> 00:15:45,230 decided by very strong majorities that 372 00:15:43,790 --> 00:15:47,630 we didn't want their amendments we sent 373 00:15:45,230 --> 00:15:49,070 it back to them and they conceded so in 374 00:15:47,630 --> 00:15:51,170 many ways the House of Lords actually 375 00:15:49,070 --> 00:15:52,880 work properly had they got involved in a 376 00:15:51,170 --> 00:15:54,920 game of ping pong then that would have 377 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:57,920 been another situation completely I mean 378 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:59,270 the party that has been badly treating 379 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:00,590 the electorate have been the Liberal 380 00:15:59,270 --> 00:16:02,630 Democrats and they were the ones that 381 00:16:00,590 --> 00:16:04,190 didn't even vote for it on third reading 382 00:16:02,630 --> 00:16:06,170 and they were the ones that were 383 00:16:04,190 --> 00:16:07,760 shouting in the House of Lords last week 384 00:16:06,170 --> 00:16:10,670 when the House of Lords actually 385 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:14,540 conceded defeat but the Queen gave royal 386 00:16:10,670 --> 00:16:16,880 assent to be the bill it's now an act a 387 00:16:14,540 --> 00:16:18,560 last Thursday and now it will be up for 388 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:20,000 Theresa May over the next few days to 389 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:21,830 make it clear when she's going to 390 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,180 trigger article 50 we can then get on 391 00:16:21,830 --> 00:16:24,770 with the negotiations and leave the 392 00:16:23,180 --> 00:16:27,440 European Union the Lib Dems probably 393 00:16:24,770 --> 00:16:29,900 still say they want a second referendum 394 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:31,720 but was that valuable time lost we heard 395 00:16:29,900 --> 00:16:34,610 David Davis saying there's no 396 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:36,230 contingency plans for no deal being made 397 00:16:34,610 --> 00:16:38,240 is that because the government were too 398 00:16:36,230 --> 00:16:40,010 worried about what that allowed to do 399 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:42,080 when David Cameron was Prime Minister he 400 00:16:40,010 --> 00:16:43,460 made it absolutely clear the referendum 401 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:44,960 was a one-off it was once in a 402 00:16:43,460 --> 00:16:47,690 generation people to have their say 403 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:50,150 there was no talk of a second referendum 404 00:16:47,690 --> 00:16:52,190 then the Lib Dems don't forget were the 405 00:16:50,150 --> 00:16:55,940 party that stopped us having that 406 00:16:52,190 --> 00:16:58,640 referendum in the 2010 2015 term because 407 00:16:55,940 --> 00:17:01,339 of the coalition Nick Clegg refused to 408 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:04,370 allow David Cameron to hold the 409 00:17:01,339 --> 00:17:05,990 referendum in that period and so I don't 410 00:17:04,370 --> 00:17:07,250 think we'll be taking in any lectures 411 00:17:05,990 --> 00:17:08,660 off the Lib Dems about a second 412 00:17:07,250 --> 00:17:10,579 referendum when they stopped the first 413 00:17:08,660 --> 00:17:13,040 one happening five years ago because 414 00:17:10,579 --> 00:17:14,600 isn't I mean it was Jeremy Corbyn of 415 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:15,460 course it's come under a lot of flack 416 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:17,770 who 417 00:17:15,460 --> 00:17:19,210 said that your party is in chaos and 418 00:17:17,770 --> 00:17:21,100 your government didn't get you got the 419 00:17:19,210 --> 00:17:23,050 u-turn of a Hammond you've got David 420 00:17:21,100 --> 00:17:25,270 Davis saying no contingency plan and 421 00:17:23,050 --> 00:17:26,740 then all of this stuff about I thought 422 00:17:25,270 --> 00:17:28,330 Theresa Mays response to him was 423 00:17:26,740 --> 00:17:30,100 brilliant she said if ever I'm going to 424 00:17:28,330 --> 00:17:31,930 take any lessons from the Honourable 425 00:17:30,100 --> 00:17:34,660 member about chaos I'll come straight to 426 00:17:31,930 --> 00:17:36,310 him his party is in disarray when 427 00:17:34,660 --> 00:17:38,410 Theresa May announced during Prime 428 00:17:36,310 --> 00:17:39,880 Minister's Questions that she was 429 00:17:38,410 --> 00:17:42,460 reversing the budget decision on 430 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:45,010 national insurance Jeremy Corbyn was so 431 00:17:42,460 --> 00:17:47,290 ill-prepared he stuck with the same six 432 00:17:45,010 --> 00:17:49,090 questions that he had prior to the 433 00:17:47,290 --> 00:17:50,500 announcement being made absolute 434 00:17:49,090 --> 00:17:53,260 shambles and you can just look at the 435 00:17:50,500 --> 00:17:55,240 Labour MP sitting around him this is a 436 00:17:53,260 --> 00:17:56,610 party in absolute disarray there's 437 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:57,730 absolutely no leadership there 438 00:17:56,610 --> 00:18:04,090 whatsoever 439 00:17:57,730 --> 00:18:06,940 Nigel Evan say it with me is the 440 00:18:04,090 --> 00:18:09,250 Treasury spokesman of the SNP Roger 441 00:18:06,940 --> 00:18:11,920 Mullen yes we'll be at Westminster Roger 442 00:18:09,250 --> 00:18:14,140 thanks for coming out on the green just 443 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,280 before we go to talk about other things 444 00:18:14,140 --> 00:18:16,720 that well what did you make of the 445 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:19,000 Electoral Commission appearing to say 446 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:20,740 you know when political parties are fine 447 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,600 they might just think it's a price worth 448 00:18:20,740 --> 00:18:25,090 paying to win elections in Britain is 449 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:28,570 that corruption to be honest I think the 450 00:18:25,090 --> 00:18:30,160 comment is absolutely justified I think 451 00:18:28,570 --> 00:18:32,410 really what they were in part seeing was 452 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:34,660 the family can impose or too small I 453 00:18:32,410 --> 00:18:37,360 mean the fame is smaller than the amount 454 00:18:34,660 --> 00:18:39,940 that the Tories cheated by which seems 455 00:18:37,360 --> 00:18:42,370 very strange indeed so I think what they 456 00:18:39,940 --> 00:18:44,170 have said is perfectly appropriate but 457 00:18:42,370 --> 00:18:49,330 around the world it will really really 458 00:18:44,170 --> 00:18:50,440 be seen as buying elections yeah I can 459 00:18:49,330 --> 00:18:52,780 say he wasn't there 460 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:55,630 okay let's go to another impending 461 00:18:52,780 --> 00:18:57,370 election and a Post article 50 election 462 00:18:55,630 --> 00:18:59,200 as the independence of Scotland what did 463 00:18:57,370 --> 00:19:01,110 you make of the fact that NATO 464 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:03,520 secretary-general Ian Sultan Berg said 465 00:19:01,110 --> 00:19:05,170 Scotland would have to reapply to NATO's 466 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:07,060 in every the Scottish people would have 467 00:19:05,170 --> 00:19:08,530 to reapply to NATO and the EU if you get 468 00:19:07,060 --> 00:19:10,390 independent I thought it was 469 00:19:08,530 --> 00:19:11,890 extraordinary the first thing that they 470 00:19:10,390 --> 00:19:13,870 thought was does that mean that they are 471 00:19:11,890 --> 00:19:16,210 going to immediately start removing the 472 00:19:13,870 --> 00:19:19,210 trade and naval base which is the neuter 473 00:19:16,210 --> 00:19:21,300 base and other things so I kind of see 474 00:19:19,210 --> 00:19:24,280 that being anything other than a bit of 475 00:19:21,300 --> 00:19:25,600 fancy rhetoric to please the thousand 476 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:27,399 vestments but I don't think there's any 477 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:29,229 substance to it whatsoever 478 00:19:27,399 --> 00:19:32,649 I know the government continually 479 00:19:29,229 --> 00:19:34,629 lambaste the SNP over any possible 480 00:19:32,649 --> 00:19:36,159 funding of a future independent Scotland 481 00:19:34,629 --> 00:19:39,339 I understand you did ask the Chancellor 482 00:19:36,159 --> 00:19:41,499 some questions about his budget as I'm a 483 00:19:39,339 --> 00:19:44,259 question about his budget the global the 484 00:19:41,499 --> 00:19:46,899 u-turn that they made suddenly and I 485 00:19:44,259 --> 00:19:49,479 asked them since the decision we know 486 00:19:46,899 --> 00:19:51,279 was made at 8 o'clock in the morning was 487 00:19:49,479 --> 00:19:53,769 this u-turn in the budget through 488 00:19:51,279 --> 00:19:55,899 cabinet because normally a budget gets 489 00:19:53,769 --> 00:19:58,629 approved through the cabinet process and 490 00:19:55,899 --> 00:20:00,999 he admitted that the rizona himself in 491 00:19:58,629 --> 00:20:02,679 feliza may made the decision the cabinet 492 00:20:00,999 --> 00:20:05,109 were kept out of it so it was like 493 00:20:02,679 --> 00:20:07,690 saying well we just dispense with 494 00:20:05,109 --> 00:20:09,729 cabinet government from the purpose of 495 00:20:07,690 --> 00:20:11,080 getting out the mess we get into other 496 00:20:09,729 --> 00:20:12,789 constitutional it was pretty 497 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:14,950 extraordinary and in the back of my 498 00:20:12,789 --> 00:20:16,869 equation a bit later on my colleague 499 00:20:14,950 --> 00:20:18,460 Alex Salmond raised a pint of other with 500 00:20:16,869 --> 00:20:20,950 the speaker about one of us is 501 00:20:18,460 --> 00:20:23,409 appropriate to bypass cabinet but on the 502 00:20:20,950 --> 00:20:23,979 other hand resumes the First Lord of the 503 00:20:23,409 --> 00:20:27,339 Treasury 504 00:20:23,979 --> 00:20:29,349 Azumi lady of the Treasury well yes but 505 00:20:27,339 --> 00:20:31,330 but there is collective responsibility 506 00:20:29,349 --> 00:20:33,609 in the government particularly all the 507 00:20:31,330 --> 00:20:35,919 financial matters all the financial 508 00:20:33,609 --> 00:20:38,200 matters government carry collective 509 00:20:35,919 --> 00:20:41,080 responsibility for all decisions so it 510 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:43,599 just says the full budget had to get new 511 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:45,549 cabinet so the u-turn and the budget 512 00:20:43,599 --> 00:20:48,700 should have gone through cabinet and it 513 00:20:45,549 --> 00:20:50,259 didn't and just another element of this 514 00:20:48,700 --> 00:20:54,039 budget that may not have been remarkable 515 00:20:50,259 --> 00:20:56,469 as much as we had the self-employed tax 516 00:20:54,039 --> 00:20:58,389 credit you appears here believe that 517 00:20:56,469 --> 00:21:00,969 they sort of haven't snuck through 518 00:20:58,389 --> 00:21:02,469 something about the UK becoming a tax 519 00:21:00,969 --> 00:21:05,739 haven without anyone noticing 520 00:21:02,469 --> 00:21:07,869 yeah the Treasury used a little-known 521 00:21:05,739 --> 00:21:10,149 device called a legislative reform over 522 00:21:07,869 --> 00:21:12,429 to try and create a new form of limited 523 00:21:10,149 --> 00:21:14,080 partnership which is the type of thing 524 00:21:12,429 --> 00:21:16,690 I've managed to get an inquiry into 525 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:19,269 because the susceptible to all sorts of 526 00:21:16,690 --> 00:21:20,739 criminality we try to sneak that through 527 00:21:19,269 --> 00:21:23,019 without it going through the House of 528 00:21:20,739 --> 00:21:24,570 Commons the proper legislative procedure 529 00:21:23,019 --> 00:21:27,789 that doesn't mean that there obviously 530 00:21:24,570 --> 00:21:31,210 they want a criminality in Britain but 531 00:21:27,789 --> 00:21:32,830 surely the work to reduce regulation to 532 00:21:31,210 --> 00:21:36,239 make it easier for all sorts of people 533 00:21:32,830 --> 00:21:39,770 internationally we already know that the 534 00:21:36,239 --> 00:21:42,380 people who are rather shady from Ukraine 535 00:21:39,770 --> 00:21:44,300 Moldova and the lake have been using UK 536 00:21:42,380 --> 00:21:47,390 limited partnerships to hate criminal 537 00:21:44,300 --> 00:21:49,310 assets but they never seem to want to 538 00:21:47,390 --> 00:21:51,410 create yet another vehicle where it's 539 00:21:49,310 --> 00:21:52,760 even easier to abuse and that's why I've 540 00:21:51,410 --> 00:21:54,530 been campaigning to get it stopped 541 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:58,070 fortunately we've managed to get into 542 00:21:54,530 --> 00:22:01,100 boots I stay on that until as a further 543 00:21:58,070 --> 00:22:04,000 review undertaken so I am submitting 544 00:22:01,100 --> 00:22:06,200 more than 40 pages of information on 545 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:08,540 criminality associated with it 546 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:10,310 symptomatic of a post brexit taxing in 547 00:22:08,540 --> 00:22:12,680 future from britain I certainly think 548 00:22:10,310 --> 00:22:15,920 from the rest in the committee that this 549 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:18,620 order was placed before a why did we 550 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:20,810 need this and the answer was so that we 551 00:22:18,620 --> 00:22:23,270 remain competitive and so the question 552 00:22:20,810 --> 00:22:25,280 then was competitive with whom for this 553 00:22:23,270 --> 00:22:27,200 type of thing and the were only able 554 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:29,590 treasure were only able to name two 555 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:32,180 places the Channel Islands and 556 00:22:29,590 --> 00:22:34,190 Luxembourg if we're having to be 557 00:22:32,180 --> 00:22:35,990 regulate because we're afraid of 558 00:22:34,190 --> 00:22:38,660 competition and the financial sector 559 00:22:35,990 --> 00:22:41,150 from the Channel Islands it tells you 560 00:22:38,660 --> 00:22:43,880 how concerned they are about the post 561 00:22:41,150 --> 00:22:50,810 brexit world Whelan Roger Allen thank 562 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:53,660 you well with me is the opposition Whip 563 00:22:50,810 --> 00:22:55,820 Nick Dakin Nick thanks so much for 564 00:22:53,660 --> 00:22:57,350 joining us on the green will ignore the 565 00:22:55,820 --> 00:23:00,500 spectacular government u-turn for a 566 00:22:57,350 --> 00:23:02,960 second attack is labor for brexit 567 00:23:00,500 --> 00:23:04,880 well we campaigned to remain in the 568 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,740 European is it now thought that was the 569 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:09,830 right thing to do but the people have 570 00:23:06,740 --> 00:23:12,500 spoken in the referendum result and I 571 00:23:09,830 --> 00:23:14,720 think we have a duty to respect that and 572 00:23:12,500 --> 00:23:16,580 that's why I voted along with my 573 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:18,770 colleagues to support the triggering of 574 00:23:16,580 --> 00:23:21,050 article 50 but what people didn't say is 575 00:23:18,770 --> 00:23:23,720 what would brexit look like and we need 576 00:23:21,050 --> 00:23:25,580 to make sure that we have fullest 577 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:27,830 possible access to the single market to 578 00:23:25,580 --> 00:23:29,510 the customs union and make sure that the 579 00:23:27,830 --> 00:23:31,850 jobs of the people I represent aren't 580 00:23:29,510 --> 00:23:34,310 damaged by leaving the European Union 581 00:23:31,850 --> 00:23:37,580 your leader elected by the greatest 582 00:23:34,310 --> 00:23:38,750 mandate arguably of any Socialist Party 583 00:23:37,580 --> 00:23:41,860 in Western Europe 584 00:23:38,750 --> 00:23:45,680 he's always argued against neoliberalism 585 00:23:41,860 --> 00:23:47,240 ironic that you're hedging your bets 586 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:49,790 there on Brecht it's still talking about 587 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:51,530 how you campaign to remain what's the 588 00:23:49,790 --> 00:23:53,539 point of that why not embrace it from a 589 00:23:51,530 --> 00:23:55,370 from a Ben I'd stand 590 00:23:53,539 --> 00:23:57,140 I think we have to embrace it now and we 591 00:23:55,370 --> 00:23:59,750 have to work to make sure we get the 592 00:23:57,140 --> 00:24:01,370 best outcome for working people in this 593 00:23:59,750 --> 00:24:04,159 country but that's going to be a real 594 00:24:01,370 --> 00:24:06,020 challenge this trigger is going to take 595 00:24:04,159 --> 00:24:08,960 place before the end of this month and 596 00:24:06,020 --> 00:24:12,289 then two years the country has to sort 597 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:13,880 out one of the most complicated deals in 598 00:24:12,289 --> 00:24:15,799 our history that's a massive massive 599 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,840 challenge to the government though it's 600 00:24:15,799 --> 00:24:19,520 also a challenge to us our job is to try 601 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:21,140 and help the government get a good deal 602 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,340 and that means challenging them in areas 603 00:24:21,140 --> 00:24:24,140 where they don't want to be challenged 604 00:24:22,340 --> 00:24:27,110 as well as areas where they probably 605 00:24:24,140 --> 00:24:28,940 expect a challenge I mentioned Ben I not 606 00:24:27,110 --> 00:24:29,419 leaves me as three years ago tony benn 607 00:24:28,940 --> 00:24:30,950 died 608 00:24:29,419 --> 00:24:33,620 because he wanted us out of the European 609 00:24:30,950 --> 00:24:37,130 Union is there no understanding within 610 00:24:33,620 --> 00:24:40,460 the present Labor Party of a great 611 00:24:37,130 --> 00:24:42,110 enthusiasm for brexit and what it may 612 00:24:40,460 --> 00:24:44,570 mean for social justice in this country 613 00:24:42,110 --> 00:24:46,700 there's clearly an enthusiasm to come 614 00:24:44,570 --> 00:24:49,490 out of Europe from people who voted for 615 00:24:46,700 --> 00:24:51,649 that but also that a lot of people voted 616 00:24:49,490 --> 00:24:53,450 for remain you know $0.48 people those 617 00:24:51,649 --> 00:24:55,760 who remain and the young people you see 618 00:24:53,450 --> 00:24:59,120 on those the green today the majority of 619 00:24:55,760 --> 00:25:01,220 them voted to remain in Europe so 620 00:24:59,120 --> 00:25:02,630 there's a big challenge about keeping 621 00:25:01,220 --> 00:25:04,309 the country together through this 622 00:25:02,630 --> 00:25:06,919 challenge through this difficult time 623 00:25:04,309 --> 00:25:09,799 and we've got to get an outcome which is 624 00:25:06,919 --> 00:25:11,539 in the interest of our country and there 625 00:25:09,799 --> 00:25:12,740 are opportunities in that and we need to 626 00:25:11,539 --> 00:25:14,450 take those opportunities that they're 627 00:25:12,740 --> 00:25:16,580 also rich because the Prime Minister 628 00:25:14,450 --> 00:25:19,490 appear to be talking about trade deals 629 00:25:16,580 --> 00:25:22,240 like seater and again neoliberal trade 630 00:25:19,490 --> 00:25:25,669 deals in there's a chance for labor to 631 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:29,210 counter by saying there was always been 632 00:25:25,669 --> 00:25:30,919 against the neoliberal you miss I think 633 00:25:29,210 --> 00:25:33,799 that there's always we've always had an 634 00:25:30,919 --> 00:25:36,380 issue with over liberalisation on the 635 00:25:33,799 --> 00:25:38,360 other hand trade as a generator of 636 00:25:36,380 --> 00:25:42,559 prosperity and one of the reasons people 637 00:25:38,360 --> 00:25:44,750 today have better lives in terms of more 638 00:25:42,559 --> 00:25:47,289 prosperous lives and they're the 639 00:25:44,750 --> 00:25:49,880 generation that came before is because 640 00:25:47,289 --> 00:25:51,440 trade has helped do that and you know 641 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,450 you talk about Sita for example that's a 642 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:56,029 good example of a trade deal which is 643 00:25:53,450 --> 00:25:57,409 likely to benefit working people across 644 00:25:56,029 --> 00:25:59,720 the whole of the European Union 645 00:25:57,409 --> 00:26:01,730 including the UK made teachers a good 646 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:05,240 thing it took seven years to negotiate 647 00:26:01,730 --> 00:26:06,430 even though it may allow courts to rule 648 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:09,040 in favor of American hell 649 00:26:06,430 --> 00:26:11,170 companies via Canada against the 650 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,820 National Guard like that you know that's 651 00:26:11,170 --> 00:26:14,860 a sort speculation which is unlikely to 652 00:26:12,820 --> 00:26:18,010 happen so it's a sort of scare mongering 653 00:26:14,860 --> 00:26:19,450 that people indulge in when they're not 654 00:26:18,010 --> 00:26:21,160 focused on the real issues which is 655 00:26:19,450 --> 00:26:22,720 about making the lives of the people 656 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:25,240 that I represent better 657 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:27,460 isn't this the problem with the Labour 658 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,960 Party you're responsible one of the 659 00:26:27,460 --> 00:26:29,770 people responsible for opposing some 660 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,960 kind of order 661 00:26:29,770 --> 00:26:33,940 what do you hear amongst the party do 662 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:36,910 they really want Corbin to fight a 663 00:26:33,940 --> 00:26:39,580 rearguard action against Rexford but we 664 00:26:36,910 --> 00:26:42,490 need to support the latest directions of 665 00:26:39,580 --> 00:26:44,350 the manifesto commitments that we put in 666 00:26:42,490 --> 00:26:46,090 place at the last election and that's 667 00:26:44,350 --> 00:26:47,950 what we are trying to do we're trying to 668 00:26:46,090 --> 00:26:51,190 take the battle to this government we've 669 00:26:47,950 --> 00:26:53,230 just seen the biggest u-turn on a budget 670 00:26:51,190 --> 00:26:55,360 since the budget last year they've you 671 00:26:53,230 --> 00:26:57,310 turned on four billion pounds of Pitts 672 00:26:55,360 --> 00:26:59,320 cuts this time last year they've just 673 00:26:57,310 --> 00:27:01,660 used turned on 2 billion pounds against 674 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:04,450 all of our honourable our of Nick cuts 675 00:27:01,660 --> 00:27:07,180 this year so this is a government in in 676 00:27:04,450 --> 00:27:10,180 normal times in crisis and chaos now our 677 00:27:07,180 --> 00:27:12,280 job is to expose that and make clear 678 00:27:10,180 --> 00:27:14,110 that there is an alternative of that 679 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:16,480 alternative by supporting the labor 680 00:27:14,110 --> 00:27:19,120 force so what is the alternative I mean 681 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:21,580 you just you're four-seater to your wit 682 00:27:19,120 --> 00:27:23,650 to resume on that it seems to be no 683 00:27:21,580 --> 00:27:25,420 different and if anything Jeremy Corbyn 684 00:27:23,650 --> 00:27:27,370 was against the butan because he was 685 00:27:25,420 --> 00:27:29,200 saying that the 2 billion pounds should 686 00:27:27,370 --> 00:27:31,090 appear to be saying we've got to balance 687 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,230 the budget not go for Keynesian 688 00:27:31,090 --> 00:27:34,480 infrastructure us know we should really 689 00:27:32,230 --> 00:27:36,730 stay no we absolutely should be spending 690 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,590 this money on investing in skills and 691 00:27:36,730 --> 00:27:40,840 investing in infrastructure that's what 692 00:27:38,590 --> 00:27:43,210 we should be doing and that's the way to 693 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:46,090 generate greater wealth and greater 694 00:27:43,210 --> 00:27:47,830 prosperity in the UK and that's what yet 695 00:27:46,090 --> 00:27:49,180 labour has been arguing for sometimes I 696 00:27:47,830 --> 00:27:50,800 think of it for example the steel 697 00:27:49,180 --> 00:27:54,550 industry which is close to my heart 698 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:56,740 representing as a steel town in the area 699 00:27:54,550 --> 00:28:00,090 I come from and some pop we need to see 700 00:27:56,740 --> 00:28:02,740 more building going on which benefits 701 00:28:00,090 --> 00:28:06,390 infrastructure and brings jobs to that 702 00:28:02,740 --> 00:28:09,070 industry executives thank you thank you 703 00:28:06,390 --> 00:28:11,330 [Music] 704 00:28:09,070 --> 00:28:12,590 well that's it for the show we're back 705 00:28:11,330 --> 00:28:14,929 on Wednesday when we asked British 706 00:28:12,590 --> 00:28:17,120 Pierre Gautama about the real reason why 707 00:28:14,929 --> 00:28:19,460 tens of millions of people are facing 708 00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:21,320 starvation in South Sudan till then keep 709 00:28:19,460 --> 00:28:23,480 in touch via social media film Wednesday 710 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:26,740 72 years to the day that the Arab League 711 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,740 was founded in Egypt