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joed by George gallow the leader of the

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respect party uh the chilot reports been

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described by many as robust even damning

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do you share that judgment utterly

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damning and the more damning because it

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came from the heart of the establishment

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cluband when it was appointed I

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described it as a parade of

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establishment flunkies well they didn't

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turn out to be flunkies but they

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definitely were the establishment so I

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think chilot has performed a national

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service and in the nick of time the

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British state was rocking after after

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the brexit after the expenses scandal

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after the war itself it's credibility at

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an alltime low and uh I'd say give him a

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Knighthood but Tony Blair already gave

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him one Sir John chilko has pulled some

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irons out of the fire for us he's

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recovered some National Honor although

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as we've just been listening to there

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are some like those Japanese soldiers

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that used to be found on remote Islands

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uh coming out of a of a foxhole uh still

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declaring their undying loyalty to the

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emperor there are such people still

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around and one's just been on your show

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but the settled will of the people is

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that chilot was right and with all the

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August language and demeanor uh that he

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displayed yesterday it seems to me

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utterly damning and no road back do you

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accept therefore that uh chilot does not

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show and does not claim that Tony Blair

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lied well you can only know what is in

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someone's heart and mind if you're the

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almighty uh the fact is whether he was a

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fool or a Nave the end result was the

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same and I think that it has opened up

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now and I'm sure that as we speak there

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are lawyers working on it opened up the

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day as Joshua Rosenberg the respected

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legal correspondant wrote In The

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Guardian this morning uh opens up the

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door for Mr Blair having to appear in

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Court well what what would be the basis

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of that since again chil Cott does not

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opine on the issue of whether this was

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an illegal War uh and perhaps does not

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provide evidence that it was a legal War

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either what would be the legal basis of

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the war criminal charge misconduct I

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don't think it would be war criminal

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don't no it would be misconduct in

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public office there's plenty in chilcot

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to demonstrate that the use of his prime

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ministerial Powers was sufficent L

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Reckless and negligent as to establish a

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case of misuse misconduct in public

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office and I'm sure that the uh uh wives

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and mothers and fathers children even of

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those who fell in the British forces are

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examining and exploring these very legal

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Avenues right now so just to be clear

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you think the war criminal route which

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many on the left have talked about uh

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you think that is pretty much foreclosed

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but misconduct in public public office

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could still be illegal route to pursue

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that's right the ICC doesn't have the

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power to punish uh aggressive uh War uh

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even unlawful War though I've asked the

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pope to punish it today uh because it's

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established in chilcott that Mr Blair

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waged what we call unjust War Catholic

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teaching is very clear from St Thomas

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aquinus on this unjust War where all

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other options have not been explored

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bring the pope into this yes I think uh

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Catholics all over the world deserve uh

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the Holy Father to opine on this but

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that's perhaps a rarified uh issue only

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for Catholics but the uh IC cannot

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because its statutes don't allow it to

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prosecute War doesn't Define what an

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aggressive War would be uh what do you

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make the interesting War not the war

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criminal route though many will still

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like that many will never be happy until

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he is they for the insatiables on this

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issue what do you make of the conduct

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misconduct in public office well well I

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I think that if proceeding on the basis

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of only partial

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evidence not giving the electorate or

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the

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media the whole story amounted to

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misconduct in public office there's

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hardly a prime minister that wouldn't be

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guilty of misconduct in private office

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what would you say to that public office

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public office well of course not with

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the same uh scale of cost uh I mean Ben

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Bradshaw's uh statement Mr Blair's

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statement that the world is safer

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because of what he did doesn't even pass

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the straight face test never mind any

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legal test the world is INF Flames

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fanatic extremism cascading everywhere

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exploding everywhere even in our own

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streets and uh Iraq is in pieces Syria's

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in pieces Libya's in pieces the Yemen's

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in pieces Saudi Arabia May soon be in

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pieces the idea that the world is safer

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now because of these two jokers behind

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you Mr Bush and Mr Blair is so utterly

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ridiculous so the costs of this

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misconduct are far greater than getting

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the marginal rate of income tax wrong or

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or or or the dvla regulations what

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though are the the foreign policy

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implications because let me put a point

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I put to someone else yes yesterday uh

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we intervened in Iraq and we occupied

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Iraq it's a mess we intervened in Libya

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but we didn't occupy Libya it's a mess

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we didn't intervene in Syria and we

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didn't occupy Syria it's a

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mess what are the form policy

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implications they were afraid to repeat

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the Iraq experience as would have

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happened if they had occupied Libya the

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people being slaughtered there now would

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be our sons as well as the libyans who

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are in fact being slaughtered ditto with

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Syria to pray Syria in Aid of the war in

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Iraq is so flying in the face of the

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reality it's almost it almost leaves one

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speechless alqaeda in Iraq was a

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response to the invasion of Iraq alqaeda

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in Iraq moved into Syria and became Isis

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metamorphosed into something even worse

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you you ask what are the foreign Pol

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policy implications of that trilogy

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you've just given us I think they are

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that containment is often a better way

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of dealing with dangers in the world

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than trying to uh zap in and and Destroy

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and remove people I well of course in in

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the in the memo that was in the whatever

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memo he does say we could go for

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containment in that and then dis

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incidentally the next word is not but as

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Ben Brad just wrongly stated on your

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program there is no but there are a

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series of caveats as you rightly but not

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to whatever them but not to the word

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whatever and it isn't but so where does

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Western foreign policy go from here in

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the it's in a dreadful

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the uh policy options that we pursued

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Matthew quoting tond I did it frequently

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at the time worse than a crime a blunder

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it's very hard to see how we put these

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pieces back together one thing ought to

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be a lesson that's supporting dictators

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like Saudi Arabia like Iraq before it

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because the Iran War that was again

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prayed inate was fought with our weapons

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and our taxpayers gave uh export credit

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guarantees British weapons yes British

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weapons British weapons British weapons

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German weapons American well remember

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the super gun remember the that was

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nevered that that was a that was a con

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perhaps so but British British companies

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British companies British arms companies

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were heavily involved in supplying

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Saddam Hussein with what weapons George

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well I don't know which particular

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caliber of gun but they were definitely

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when I was in Iraq all the weapons were

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Soviet yes of course the Soviet Union

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supplied a lot of Iraq I'm not aware

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that we supplied any actual weapons the

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West supported Iraq in the Iran Ira War

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uh and indeed denied halabja which is

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also now predonated they denied the

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halabja they blamed Iran for halabja for

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six full months after it so you know the

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moral authority of these people is now

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gone a period of ashamed Silence from

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them would now be an order all right

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George Gallow thank you for being with

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us